Authenticity is Everything
Billie Holiday Autograph
I purchased this 78 vinyl record purportedly signed by Billie Holiday from an RACC trusted seller. I recently submitted the item to JSA for authentication, and unfortunately it did not pass.
I originally submitted it in person at a show here in CA a few weeks ago, and I was disappointed by how carelessly the item was handled during intake. When I received it back, there were fingerprints all over it. I contacted JSA immediately to report the condition, and they did expedite the review process.
Yesterday I received their letter confirming that the autograph did not pass authentication. I’m extremely disappointed and unsure what my next step should be, or if anyone here might be able to offer advice.
Prior to purchasing the item, I did my research and examined the signature characteristics—such as the looping of “Billie” and the shape of the “H” in “Holiday.” However, upon further inspection, the signature appears to have been written in ballpoint pen. Additionally, the Blue Ace label is known to be a bootleg label, and this particular pressing seems to have been released slightly before the time of her passing.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo
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"...with Verimarx!" - It is misleading IMO.
This a definite Autopen identified in seconds but your Verimarx said "medium" or 81%. Why not a positive ID as inauthentic from a known Autopen template? It also said 78% in the authenticity analysis.. It's Kennedy! I placed another example below:
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Permalink Reply by JK
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The very first thing any application like this should be doing is proactively seeking out and recording all known autopens.
The work has already been done. Why reinvent the wheel?
This is one reason I don't trust it. It is too passive, letting AI do all the work, even where the work has already been done previously by actual people.
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+1 BTW, I did not submit that Kennedy - it is on their own VeriMarx page.
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"BTW, I did not submit that Kennedy - it is on their own Verimarx page."
That's great! AI must stand for Artificial Incompetence.
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LOL ;)
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Is it me or is the "o" formed after a pen stop/lift, right side down first and back left up to make the loop of the "o" - this is apparently opposite than the authentic exemplars shown.
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva
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To me it looks like there is a pen lift after the "o" has been formed. I don't see this on the ten or so other exemplars shown in this thread. In those exemplars the "o" seems to flow directly into the "l", often with a small circular movement. I haven't gone back to look at all the RR exemplars. I can't see why signing a 78 would require a special pen lift here.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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The record label is 3-3.5 inches, with a hole in the middle.
Billie signed this record very thoughtfully.
- She signed it straight-on: when you look at the title upright, her autograph is upright.
- She signed it large enough to make the most of the label without overpowering it.
- "Billie" is angled upwards to make the most of the shape of the label, and signed it large.
- The H of "Holiday" is a 'line' above the rest of the name to fit the shape of the record and sign it large.
- Billie signed to a smidge off the edge of the spindle hole on both sides.
- It's beautifully centered, with both names positioned a good margin from the edge printing. The tip of the long tail of the B touches the edge printing. A couple small points of the tail of the Y touch the edge printing. That's it.
This was not a casual fan autograph. Billie must have sat down and signed it on a flat surface.
It's going to have some characteristics you don't see often. But I don't see any characteristics I've never seen before.
Then again, I've never seen a Billie signed record label before. Just album covers and 78 sleeves.
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Steve, I have to say that your list of positive attributes makes me more, rather than less, skeptical. I don't know exactly how authenticators work but for me the overall look/feel of a piece and any provenance are much more important than things like pen lifts and slants, though these things must still be considered. This Holiday just doesn't look spontaneous and free-flowing enough to me. Of course that could have something to do with the format.
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It's not a spontaneous autograph. If Billie signed it, as I think she did, she signed with a lot of care. People do that sometimes.
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Red. green, blue:
No stop between green and blue. After red green starts from nowhere:
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The usual formation with no stop:
OP:
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