Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by 5816nick on November 26, 2022 at 2:46am

This isn't a £30  book or £50 print these ranged from £500 to £25K....

I was refunded by Indigo, but didn't get a Free Book - I wouldn't want a Fake book anyway ! 

I'm in the UK and want what I originally ordered back in September -  that is well within the realms of being reasonable and totally realistic - even we have to pay X amount for it - same as If I had bought a signed art print - which I nearly did from Castle Fine Arts a few months ago ! Bob and his team seriously need to put this right by a lot more than a paltry apology (I'm not even on Twitter)  and I'm guessing there are still people out there totally unaware this is even happening ! 

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Permalink Reply by Jor-El on November 26, 2022 at 3:03am

JK is right, even under UK consumer law it does not give you a right to demand the autograph. They cannot deliver and made you whole by refunding the full purchase amount. That's it. The contract has been rescinded.

If you want them to offer more it would be because of customer satisfaction. You should appeal to their wish to keep the fanbase happy - it's a relatively small community, they shouldn't kill their best cows if they want to keep milking us.

Lars also has a good point, this is possible criminal activity. This can be made aware to the authorities who might investigate and take action. However criminal law does not give us any more rights as a consumer.

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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on November 26, 2022 at 3:11am

Nobody wants the autopen book. I sure don't. It p***** me off when I see it on my table, so that doesn't make things whole to me. As they say time is money, how many hours did people spend sending emails and filing disputes, fighting, compiling the info here, trying to get their money back, and dealing with frustration, being pissed off and disappointed, etc. An apology and a crappy book I don't want don't take those away. I don't expect they'll do anything more, but for me to feel even I'd want more than a fake apology and something to fill my trash can. 

Thats like saying if someone robs you, then once they get caught, they return your money and apologize... that you shouldn't feel any different, and are even now because you were made whole, and nothing else should come of it. When that's not the case... You still had to deal with the trauma and would still want compensation or the person to be punished, then maybe you'd feel justice was served. 

Granted this isn't as extreme as being robbed directly, and we'll all be fine once we get over being pissed off and the disappointment... but being ripped off/scammed/lied to by someone you're a big fan of doesn't feel great, having a dream item snatched away also doesn't feel great. So it's not exactly as simple as a refund and fake apology erasing everything... but I'm not expecting anything good coming from it, like others said its probably not a legal obligation for them to do anything more... unless of course anyone does decide to sue.. if they do offer real signatures that would be awesome, and would erase a lot of the bad feelings, but I'm not holding my breath. 

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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on November 26, 2022 at 2:52am

Yeah you're definitely more protected over there from the sound of it. Most of our government agencies that are supposed to protect consumers in the US are a joke (well most governent agencies in general I should say). The best chance we got is paying with a credit card or PayPal and filing a dispute... that usually ends up getting your money back, but maybe it's just me, but even that seems to be a bit less reliable than it used to. 

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Permalink Reply by Knob Dylan on November 26, 2022 at 3:25am

Just a friendly reminder. "Mail fraud is usually committed when a suspect mails out something with the intent of defrauding another person and is a federal crime that has been on the books since 1872. Various other charges could be filed along with mail fraud, and state or local penalties may apply alongside federal charges. It usually involves a deceptive letter that encourages or tricks another into sending money to them. Mail fraud can involve mailings that have crossed state lines, as well."

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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on November 26, 2022 at 3:42am

The problem is nobody seems to care when the rich/corporations do this stuff to normal folks... The chances of getting any law enforcement to even look into this is slim to none. The justice system in the US is a joke. The only way to enforce any penalties to them would be to sue them, and that if you can afford a lawyer, or get one to take up the case and then they'd get any compensation you'd end up with anyway. I filed a complaint with the federal trade commission and expect to get zero results... same as any other time I've had issues that needed laws to protect me from a rich corporation. The only one who ever had any consequences come from it was me, and that was the frustration of dealing with them with no results/help. 

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Permalink Reply by Knob Dylan on November 26, 2022 at 3:50am

I would think that with the proven current $600,000 mail fraud and now the recent worthless art autopens, the total amount will exceed $1,000,000, just guessing here. Possibly a State AG would be an option. Again, just spit balling here. 

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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on November 26, 2022 at 4:20am

I agree they should do something but I have about zero hope when it comes to law enforcement or the justice system in this country. Unless maybe someone has connections, or wants to take a ton of their own time hassling someone to do something, or someone that got ripped off has enough F-you money to pay lawyers to persue it, that's about the only way I could see something being done. It's probably multiple millions in fraud... I think the print editions were something like 300. So depending on how many they sold that could be a lot of money in fraud. I'm not sure the threshold where class action lawsuit becomes viable in a lawyers eyes but those are also a joke for the victims. The lawyers get paid, but that's about it. So most possibilities or justice happening are unlikely in my opinion, but dont let me disuade anyone from trying... imo at best, if we're lucky they'll give us a consolation prize, if not our consolation prize was the crappy autopen book or print. 

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Permalink Reply by Knob Dylan on November 26, 2022 at 4:29am

I agree, it would be a very large uphill battle, some connections would definitely help. I'm only 3-4yrs in to this hobby and only recently found this website (thank you, all). Are there any other high profile examples of Simon & Shuckster selling autopens? 

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Permalink Reply by 5816nick on November 26, 2022 at 4:48am

I did a rough calculation yesterday the books and art prints you are Talking about is well over $8 Million in fraudulant sales !

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Permalink Reply by Nichole on November 26, 2022 at 2:26am

Quite frankly bobs an idiot. He probably didn’t know autopen isn’t acceptable. Probably didn’t know it even existed. That’s my guess. I don’t know that for a fact.  However it’s not an excuse. At all. The vertigo isn’t an excuse at all. He got caught and if he had t gotten caught he’d have never apologized and he would have kept the money. 

im so disappointed 

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Permalink Reply by JC on November 26, 2022 at 5:22am

Of course this fiasco does not take away from Bob Dylan legacy of music.  We all have enjoyed his songwriting and music over the years. That is a given.  However, the huge number of fans who believed in him and invested their money in his creation of art and books, are outraged.  That hurts in many levels.  He is a Nobel Prize Winner, for G - D' s sake.  He does not need $600 from the Dylan fan who bought his book...chump change for BD.  Just as Dolly Parton not needing the $450 book from her fans including me.  As a collector, we thought we can have a piece of their legacy and enjoy Dolly's/BD's book ... that they touched a page "hand-signed" the artist.  For me, it starts from the top.  These artists knew what was happening and they did not care that we got scammed.  BD actually admitted on social media ONLY when it was outed on this forum that the books were autopenned and Jason H. and the rest of them took it to the next level of the paintings and painting prints being autopenciled.  Where there is smoke, there is fire.  If the books were not proven to be fakes.. and then the paintings, you would have never known and BD would not have acknowledged this fraud... why?  because there can be a class action suit filed by those who hold pictures autopenciled for fraud, duplicity and conspiracy.  The books were refunded and the publisher's CEO fell on the sword for BD.   

Maybe this will make other artists think twice about autopenning their creations the next time.  We can only hope.  Sure, I will still enjoy Dolly Parton' s music and Bob Dylan's music.. that is for all to appreciate. But I ain't gonna buy any books "hand-signed" from these two anytime soon.  The disbelief and the time and effort put into getting my money back from Chronicles for PD's books ... OMG.. ain't going through that ever again.  That took up time that I cannot ever get back.

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