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Authenticity is Everything
Bob Dylan AUTOPEN Info To Help With Returns / Refunds - Simon & Schuster, Premiere, and Coles
***URGENT UPDATE
Previous update
Some users have uncovered potential autopen use within Bob Dylan's expensive art prints. Please check your prints if you own one and post a picture on this thread if you have any concerns.
here is a link to one of his art prints in question
https://www.castlefineart.com/art/bob-dylan/cactus
*UPDATE - Let this be a warning to ALL publishers and celebrities in the future. We are sick and tired of these autopen releases. Our community has had enough and absolutely will not stand for this practice to continue any longer!!!
I want to point out that Coles Books needs to be commended. They made sure to look out for their customers and refused to ship these out if they came from the same S&S stock, which they did. It was also an easy process to cancel orders beforehand if you wished. Coles. on behalf of everyone, I want to thank you for having integrity and watching out for all of us.
I can NOT say the same about Premiere Collectibles. They refused to honor cancelation requests until it was known these books were in fact autopenned. They advertise themselves claiming they are collectors themselves. This is not true. They are a retailer first and only care about your money. There have been other autopen incidents where they absolutely refused to accept blame, stating items were real when they were clearly deemed autopen by the community. Be careful with future purchases with Premiere Collectibles.
This email came directly from Jonathan Karp at Simon and Schuster. If anyone still wishes to send him a message, here is his email address as well.
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
We apologize for the mistake that was made and are offering a full refund of your purchase. Please keep your copy of The Philosophy of Modern Song at no cost. We hope you will enjoy reading it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Karp
Here are 51 articles and counting detailing our combined efforts on this forum
New York Post - Screenshot.jpg
New York Times - Screenshot.jpg
Los Angeles Times - Screenshot.jpg
Washington Post - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
Billboard pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
The Daily Beast - Screenshot.jpg
Ultimate Classic Rock - Screenshot.jpg
Poetic Justice - Screenshot.jpg
The Music Universe - Screenshot.jpg
I Heart Radio - Screenshot.jpg
Publishers Lunch - Subscription required
Spiegel - Translated Screenshot.jpg
Far Out Magazine - Screenshot.jpg
American Songwriter - Screenshot.jpg
American Top 40 - Screenshot.jpg
We Got This Covered - Screenshot.jpg
Healthcare Buisness - Screenshot.jpg
Sydney Morning Herald - Screenshot.jpg
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ORIGINAL POST
I am creating this thread as a comprehensive all in 1 link for returns, refunds, chargebacks and claims made regarding the "signed" edition of Bob Dylan - The Philosophy Of Modern Song. Please use this link to email Simon & Schuster, Coles, and Premiere Collectables as 100% proof these were signed using an autopen machine.
I would like to say right off the bat, Coles Books in the UK is handling this professionally and seem to care deeply about their customer base. They have stated that, once they are in hand, If they find evidence of them being autopenned, they will cancel all orders.. Kudos to Coles.. I wish all retailers would follow their lead. If you wish to cancel your order with them immediately instead of waiting, It seems to be an easy process.
This post will be continuously updated with new information over the next few days
Please refer to this article for the time being until more information is added
https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1290-cjbk/news/collectors-quest...
Here is the post I created a few weeks ago with info regarding the Indigo incident.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/indigo-bob-dylan-po...
So far, there have been a total of 17 confirmed different templates for the autopen machine used for Bob Dylans signature. I am in the process of creating video comparisons for all 17 sets. Please post full page photos of your item as they are delivered to aid in this process
Here are all 17 templates used by Bob Dylan - I am still looking for full page photos for numbers 8,13 and 15 thru 17 but its still best to post whatever you receive
Be aware when checking against your own copy, it has come to light that they are possibly using 1st and last names interchangeably. Bob in #2 matches perfectly with Bob in #13 while Dylan in both are different
14th variation confirmed
15th variation
16th variation - Seems to be almost an exact combination of #11 and #13 with a different vertical line in his "D"
17th variation
Video and photo comparisons created so far
Video of set 1 Dylan1.mp4 - Photo of set 1 Dylan1.JPG
Video of set 2 Dylan2.mp4 - Photo of set 2 Dylan2.JPG
Video of set 3 Dylan3.mp4 - Photo of set 3 Dylan3.JPG
Video of set 4 Dylan4.mp4 - Photo of set 4 Dylan4.JPG
Video of set 5 Dylan5.mp4 - Photo of set 5 Dylan5.JPG
Video of set 6 Dylan6.mp4 - Photo of set 6 Dylan6.JPG
Video of set 7 Dylan7.mp4 - Photo of set 7 Dylan7.JPG
Video of set 9 Dylan9.mp4 - Photo of set 9 Dylan9.JPG
Video of set 10 Dylan10.mp4 - Photo of set 10 Dylan10.JPG
Video of set 11 Dylan11.mp4 - Photo of set 11 Dylan11.JPG
Video of set 12 Dylan12.mp4 - Photo of set 12 Dylan12.JPG
Video of set 14 Dylan14.mp4 - Photo of set 14 Dylan14.JPG
Here are the COAs stating these books were in fact hand-signed
Suzanne Baboneau for UK - Certificate Of Authenticity UK.jpg
Jonathan Karp for USA - Certificate Of Authenticity USA.JPG
Coles listing before it was removed - Coles Website Listing.jpg
Important emails:
Jonathan Karp US - CEO of Simon & Schuster
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
Duane Ward of Premiere Collectables
duane@premierespeakers.com - Others have tried duane@premierecollectables.com
Suzanne Baboneau, Managing Director
suzanne.baboneau@simonandschuster.co.uk
Ian Chapman, UK - CEO
ian.chapman@simonandschuster.co.uk
Bob Dylan's Manager
Jeff Kramer
OK Management
275 South Beverly Drive
Suite 215
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Phone: 310-535-1647
Bob Dylan's Agent
Brian Greenbaum
Creative Artists Agency
2000 Avenue Of The Stars
Los Angeles, CA 90067
Phone: 424-288-2000
Bob Dylan's Production Agent
Sony/Columbia/CBS Records
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Phone: 212-833-7305
Bob Dylan's Law Firm
Manatt Phelps & Phillips
11355 West Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
Phone: 310-312-4000
Bob Dylan's Twitter
Tweet or privatly message Bob on his verified Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bobdylan/
Bob Dylan's Facebook
Post or message Bob on his verified Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/bobdylan/
I also found this email associated with Bob Dylans store. Its worth a try
BOBDYLAN@EPICRIGHTS.COM
Media Publications who may be eager to pick up this story - Please email them a link to this post and all related content
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/corp/contactus.html
For story pitches, please send:
News to Jim Milliot and John Maher
Soapbox ideas to Rachel Deahl
Features to features@publishersweekly.com
Related content:
Dolly Parton is also guilty of using multiple autopens in the same fashion with multiple templates over the years but with a slight twist where they manipulate the page as the autopen machine writes her signature. If we are looking to stop all future attempts at autopen usage, she needs to be held accountable just as much as Bob Dylan and S&S. Link to threads below
Here is a great example provided by Eric Keith Longo
Dolly Parton Autopen Example.jpg
http://www.feelnumb.com/2022/03/09/dolly-parton-fake-autograph-song...
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/dolly-parton-signed...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Al on
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I consider this somewhat insider info, but I'm going to share what I recently heard from a reliable source.
One of the big TPA's recently approached Dylan and his publishing team.
They offered to authenticate each and every signature that had any lingering doubt, but they didn't get a response.
Fyi, I'm not implying anything, everyone can make of that what they will.
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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on
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They offered to say they're all authentic? Or to look them over and make a judgment on whether they are or not?
It wouldn't really make sense for Dylan to do it... then people would expect it on any of them in the future. It would be saying his word isn't enough even if they passed... and if any failed he'd have even more problems. Plus it would bring more attention to it. I'm sure he wants the story to die and everyone to forget and move on... and judging by how little anyone posts on this anymore (not that theres much to say that hasnt been already), and how fast the internet forgets and moves on to the next outrage... everyone forgetting and moving on is already happening. He faced little to no consequences so why would he bring more attention to it?
Has anyone sent one of the signed prints in to be authenticated, or at least done a quick opinion?
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As PFCollector suggested, there's nothing for the Dylan team in that supposed TPA offer.
Why would they acknowledge "lingering doubt"? Their position on what is authentic is already very clear.
Assuming there really was a TPA offer to do this, it was self-serving on their part. Besides, what about the prints already sold? The TPG is already free to look at those if the owners opt for that service.
The question is whether or not autopens were used. Many of the signatures on the supposedly non-autopen pieces that have been posted here clearly are not autopen. So, what is the role of the TPA? There is no real upside for the Dylan team or publisher here.
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Yes obviously financial gain is one incentive for any company, it's just how the world works.
The TPA did indeed offer to look over all signatures in question
I understand the issue, and imagine they would have been able to discern between hand signed by Dylan or auto-pen.
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I was casually browsing icons.com looking at signed jerseys.
Then came across this, so I thought I'd share it as it reminded me of this thread.
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For information, I got new Certificates of Authenticity for two prints in the Retrospectrum sets (Taxi, Cactus) last Friday. I had already received refunds in December.
I think that the only difference between the original C of As and new ones is the phrase 'autopen signature' as in: 'All editions are certified by Bob Dylan's autopen signature and numbered in graphite pencil.'
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Hi everyone! I'm a reporter doing some preliminary research on last year's Bob Dylan scandal. I have two questions for you:
- Is this an ongoing issue? Are people having trouble getting refunds to this day, and is the lawsuit happening?
- Did it end up mattering that someone got ahold of the book early?
If anyone who was impacted by this could answer these questions and/or tell me their story in the replies, I would greatly appreciate it!
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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So there were a couple issues involved. The signatures in Dylan’s Philosophy of Modern Song books were autopen, as he eventually admitted. To my knowledge, everyone who purchased the book was refunded and those that received it were allowed to keep their copies. Some are selling on eBay for up to $200, clearly listed as autopen.
The use of the autopen signatures in the books led to the discovery that some of Dylan’s signed art prints (priced in the thousands of dollars) also contained autopen signatures. This resulted in a subsequent admission by Dylan that he had utilized autopen signatures on TWO of his art series. The gallery that handles the sale of Dylan’s art, Castle Fine Art, agreed to refund customers who purchased those 2 series containing autopen signatures. However, the signatures on other Dylan artwork sold by Castle remain in question. Castle has asserted (without any evidence) that all but the 2 autopenned series actually contain real signatures. Customer who own art prints outside of those 2 series (including myself) are left wondering if the signatures on their prints are in fact by Dylan.
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Also, regarding someone getting a copy of the book early-
The signed edition of the book was initially offered for sale in October 2022 by Canadian bookseller Indigo. A copy then surfaced online, appearing to show an autopen signature. Indigo then pulled the title from their site, saying something along the lines that the publisher/author had decided to go a different direction.
Approximately one month later, the signed edition was offered for sale directly by the publisher Simon and Schuster with a letter of authenticity signed by the president of the company asserting that the signatures were real. Of course, they were found to be autopen.
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Is your research for the Bob Dylan fiasco only or for all Auto pen scandals? if it's the latter then you should get plenty of info here because there have been many, and with a lot of high-profile names in the last few years. As autograph collecting became a much bigger fad in recent years there has been increased use of Autopen, stamps, and ghostwriters, I'm not sure of the number but signed releases used to be limited and were probably limited to a couple of thousand, now it's common for it to be 50,000 or more. a lot of us have tried everything we could think of to expose and stop it but with not much luck yet so I hope you can get it out there.
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