Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JK on February 3, 2023 at 2:49pm

Agree, that one looks bad.

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Permalink Reply by Al on February 17, 2023 at 3:27am

I consider this somewhat insider info, but I'm going to share what I recently heard from a reliable source.

One of the big TPA's recently approached Dylan and his publishing team.

They offered to authenticate each and every signature that had any lingering doubt, but they didn't get a response.

Fyi, I'm not implying anything, everyone can make of that what they will. 

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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on February 17, 2023 at 3:47am

They offered to say they're all authentic? Or to look them over and make a judgment on whether they are or not?

It wouldn't really make sense for Dylan to do it... then people would expect it on any of them in the future. It would be saying his word isn't enough even if they passed... and if any failed he'd have even more problems. Plus it would bring more attention to it. I'm sure he wants the story to die and everyone to forget and move on... and judging by how little anyone posts on this anymore (not that theres much to say that hasnt been already), and how fast the internet forgets and moves on to the next outrage... everyone forgetting and moving on is already happening. He faced little to no consequences so why would he bring more attention to it? 

Has anyone sent one of the signed prints in to be authenticated, or at least done a quick opinion?

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Permalink Reply by Al on February 17, 2023 at 4:13am

Yes, they offered to look them over.

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Permalink Reply by JK on February 17, 2023 at 4:05am

As PFCollector suggested, there's nothing for the Dylan team in that supposed TPA offer.

Why would they acknowledge "lingering doubt"? Their position on what is authentic is already very clear. 

Assuming there really was a TPA offer to do this, it was self-serving on their part.  Besides, what about the prints already sold? The TPG is already free to look at those if the owners opt for that service. 

The question is whether or not autopens were used.  Many of the signatures on the supposedly non-autopen pieces that have been posted here clearly are not autopen. So, what is the role of the TPA?  There is no real upside for the Dylan team or publisher here.

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Permalink Reply by Al on February 17, 2023 at 4:16am

Yes obviously financial gain is one incentive for any company, it's just how the world works.

The TPA did indeed offer to look over all signatures in question 

I understand the issue, and imagine they would have been able to discern between hand signed by Dylan or auto-pen. 

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Permalink Reply by Al on March 1, 2023 at 12:52pm

I was casually browsing icons.com looking at signed jerseys.

Then came across this, so I thought I'd share it as it reminded me of this thread. 

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Permalink Reply by Marky Molloy on March 6, 2023 at 3:59am

For information, I got new Certificates of Authenticity for two prints in the Retrospectrum sets (Taxi, Cactus) last Friday. I had already received refunds in December.

I think that the only difference between the original C of As and new ones is the phrase 'autopen signature' as in: 'All editions are certified by Bob Dylan's autopen signature and numbered in graphite pencil.'

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Permalink Reply by Jessica Taylor Price on May 15, 2023 at 4:24am

Hi everyone! I'm a reporter doing some preliminary research on last year's Bob Dylan scandal. I have two questions for you:

1. Is this an ongoing issue? Are people having trouble getting refunds to this day, and is the lawsuit happening?
2. Did it end up mattering that someone got ahold of the book early?

If anyone who was impacted by this could answer these questions and/or tell me their story in the replies, I would greatly appreciate it!

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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on May 15, 2023 at 5:07am

So there were a couple issues involved. The signatures in Dylan’s Philosophy of Modern Song books were autopen, as he eventually admitted. To my knowledge, everyone who purchased the book was refunded and those that received it were allowed to keep their copies. Some are selling on eBay for up to $200, clearly listed as autopen. 

The use of the autopen signatures in the books led to the discovery that some of Dylan’s signed art prints (priced in the thousands of dollars) also contained autopen signatures. This resulted in a subsequent admission by Dylan that he had utilized autopen signatures on TWO of his art series. The gallery that handles the sale of Dylan’s art, Castle Fine Art, agreed to refund customers who purchased those 2 series containing autopen signatures. However, the signatures on other Dylan artwork sold by Castle remain in question. Castle has asserted (without any evidence) that all but the 2 autopenned series actually contain real signatures. Customer who own art prints outside of those 2 series (including myself) are left wondering if the signatures on their prints are in fact by Dylan. 

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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on May 15, 2023 at 5:27am

Also, regarding someone getting a copy of the book early- 

The signed edition of the book was initially offered for sale in October 2022 by Canadian bookseller Indigo. A copy then surfaced online, appearing to show an autopen signature. Indigo then pulled the title from their site, saying something along the lines that the publisher/author had decided to go a different direction.

Approximately one month later, the signed edition was offered for sale directly by the publisher Simon and Schuster with a letter of authenticity signed by the president of the company asserting that the signatures were real. Of course, they were found to be autopen. 

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Permalink Reply by Joel S on May 15, 2023 at 6:23am

Is your research for the Bob Dylan fiasco only or for all Auto pen scandals? if it's the latter then you should get plenty of info here because there have been many, and with a lot of high-profile names in the last few years. As autograph collecting became a much bigger fad in recent years there has been increased use of Autopen, stamps, and ghostwriters, I'm not sure of the number but signed releases used to be limited and were probably limited to a couple of thousand, now it's common for it to be 50,000 or more. a lot of us have tried everything we could think of to expose and stop it but with not much luck yet so I hope you can get it out there.  

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