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Christy Mathewson / Kenesaw Mountain Landis signed baseball

Hi all,

A couple of months ago I posted about a baseball signed by Christy Mathewson and Kenesaw Mountain Landis in 1923. I'm starting a new thread on this, trying to see what went wrong. In summary, I went together with a friend and bought this ball through a private sale, then we consigned it to Heritage Auctions, where it sold this past weekend. However, the sale price was WAY below what we expected - only very slightly above what we paid for it. Some of the comments on the previous post indicated that it could be worth 6 figures, and that it could be one of the best examples known for a Mathewson signed ball (not to mention the added appeal of the Landis signature). Other examples of Mathewson balls have indeed sold for $100,000+ yet ours brought just $31,070.

Here is a link to the listing from Heritage: http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1923-christy-mathewson-andamp-ken...

(NOTE: you may have to have an account and sign in to see the prices realized.)

One comment from the previous thread here (by TradeGeek) was that this ball "is a major piece, the kind of item that would headline a major auction." I have to say that I don't think Heritage did a great job of promoting it, just one of many balls in the auction and estimated at only "$30,000 up." It did have LOA from both JSA and PSA/DNA. It also had very good provenance from the family we purchased it from though Heritage did not include that in the description. Do you guys think people were holding back with some hesitation as to the authenticity of the ball, even with the LOA's?

Here is another recent ball that sold at Heritage on Feb. 21, 2015. This one brought $95,600 even though it was JUST the Mathewson signature. Why did this one sell for over 3 times what ours did, considering that ours had the added Landis signature?

http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1919-24-christy-mathewson-single-...

I have to admit that I am not very active in the sports collectible hobby, so am not up on the latest trends. Is it possible that the value of Christy Mathewson signed balls has gone down substantially in the past year? Perhaps several of them have turned up lately, making them not as rare as previously thought?

One final thought, which I certainly hope can't be possible, but have to ask - is there any chance that we were "swindled" to some degree by Heritage, whereas they somehow artificially kept the bidding low on this ball?

Thanks for any and all help that anyone can provide. I realize there is little if anything we can do about this one, but any advice for future dealings would be appreciated.

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on May 16, 2016 at 8:48am

I found another image you uploaded, so here's a 3-way comparison:

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on May 16, 2016 at 8:56am

Sorry, you posted the comparison ball. I removed my other posts.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on May 16, 2016 at 8:59am

Heritage wouldn't swindle you by trying to get your ball to bring less. It's in their best interests to have each lot bring as much as possible. Single-signed balls often bring more than ones with two or more signatures, but this price is surprisingly low, especially for such a nice ball.

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Potter on May 16, 2016 at 10:56am

To be forthright, I don't think the price was too bad on this ball. A single signed Mathewson ball should (and will fetch) multiples of one that has other signatures on it, even one like this that only has Landis. Not having Landis would have increased it's value quite a bit. There is a very very large group of people that collect baseballs of all Hall of Famers, but only want them single signed. Having Landis eliminated a majority of those potential buyers. I did not read your original thread, but one must always take value estimates with a grain of salt, especially on extremely high end items. It's easy to estimate how much a ball worth around five hundred dollars will sell for, because there are many more to compare and the margin of error is very small percentage wise. For very high priced items, but having one or two extra bidders can have a huge impact on the value. Lastly, I would doubt that you were swindled in any way, for the most part it's in the best interest of an auction house to get as much as possible for the item, they realize more in commission and it helps with getting future business in similar items when consignors can see how much it went for. I know this isn't what you probably wanted to happen with the ball as you bought it for resale, but without researching more I bet you will find quite a number of balls with Mathewson from that era that have other signatures on them that probably sold in the 20K range. I empathize with your disappointment but alas that is part of the risk of auctioning an item, it removes your ability to say yes or no to a final sales price.

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Permalink Reply by Robin Banks on May 16, 2016 at 5:50pm

+1. Also, I would've consigned this to Goldin Auctions. Goldin seems to have a better marketing edge when it comes to Sports memorabilia.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Greaves on May 17, 2016 at 5:35pm

Hi Jeffrey,

Thanks for your reply, that helps a lot. I guess the biggest factor is what you say about single signed balls selling for more than one with multiple signatures. I was thinking just the opposite, that the additional Landis signature on there would add considerable value to the Mathewson signature, but I guess that is wrong. Perhaps we should be thankful that we at least got close to what we paid for it!

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on May 16, 2016 at 12:36pm

Single signed balls sell for more than multi-signed, in most cases, unless there are signed by a pair linked together, like mantle/maris and Ruth/gehrig. that could explain some of the difference, but not all.

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Permalink Reply by TradeGeek on May 25, 2016 at 5:08pm

I don't understand how the single vrs. multi signed issue would explain such a low price. If that is the reason I don't understand it at all. The Mathewson is on the sweet spot. There is no crowding issue that takes away the eye appeal from the Mathewson autograph. Having Landis on the ball, if I remember correctly, associated the item with one previously auctioned which added to the provenance. Possibly giving the ball a date.

Then again there is allot where I disagree with prevailing wisdom in the hobbies. I like multi signed items as long as the signatures aren't crowded and the most desirable are most prominent. It's also much harder to effectively fake a multi signed item. I would rather have that Mathewson/Landis ball with it's provenance (with two very difficult signatures) than a Mathewson only ball with just a PSA/JSA cert and no provenance.

But then again, I'm also one of those people who nearly dry heaved when I heard Topps purchased a Josh Gibson bat (with excellent provenance) only to cut it up and insert the pieces in baseball cards. The cards sold for high $$ on the secondary market. I thought it was a disgrace.

I'm really surprised that your Mathewson sold for so little. Whoever the buyer was got one hell of a deal, in my opinion.