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Elvis Presley?

Hey guys,

I saw this signature and I would hear your opinion. It looks fine to me, but I've never seen that Elvis' wrote a letter "K" like this (in word "Kris"). What do you think about this one?? Thanks.

Tags: autograph, elvis, presley, signature

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 8, 2018 at 1:52pm

If we were dying of thirst in a desert, and we spot a well and then we watch a good number of folks die from drinking its water, I might think twice before getting my cup unless death was imminent. But, this is not a desert, we are not dying, there are other autograph venues/sources with better reputations - Elvis is scarce and desirable and all but there are other examples of those as well. What is the upside buying from a bad source? Low price? True, some of those folks that drank from the bad well lived, but who wants to wonder "Do I have a parasite now?" "Do I have a bad graph"? That feeling can linger. Then I imagine a man comes up to me and says he is thirsty too - and I say "Here, have some water from this cup (I finally got very thirsty)". I don't think I am sick. He asks "Say, from what well did you get this water? You know, I hear about a well that often leads to illness and death..." - What do I say to assuage his sensible fears? One can never know the true source of every vintage cut and loose sig...who knows where some stuff originated? So we do the best we can. In my mind, that includes staying away from known problem areas. Just my .02.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 8, 2018 at 2:04pm

I really like the discussion going on. That’s what it’s all about here!

In the old days… You know, the days before TPAs, provenance was an important part of the authentication process. It’s still is in historic autographs and documents, and very much throughout in Europe. Oh… And England, even though they don’t want to admit that they are part of Europe.

I’m on my phone, dictating and correcting, so if I missed some errors, I apologize.

First you authenticate the Autograph, can you check the provenance to see if it makes sense, or if there are any warning signs, like dealers who seemingly intentionally sell forgeries and those who simply aren’t educated enough and don’t realize they’re selling them.

Luckily I caught that when I said provenance Siri heard it as pro bananas.

No matter who this would’ve come from, I don’t think that Elvis signed it. The T of to has too uniform a curve on the down stroke. The O is tucked in way too close to the T.

Kris looks way far off to me.

From: His F is usually fairly straight and if there’s a top to bottom curve it’s slightly to the left if anything, not right like this one.

His name: The second L is usually smaller than the first one, and tends to tilt towards the right. The first hell is usually fairly even from left to right, with a nice curve on both sides, but if it’s not even, the right side, the upstroke, tends to be straighter than the left. The upstroke is typically straighter on the second L as well. On both of these it’s the down stroke, the left side of the L, that is straighter. The Y is very different from how Elvis tends to sign. Usually the down stroke is fairly curved but the upstroke, the cross stroke, is much straighter. It also rarely ends like this one, which is sweeping upwards. It tends to end abruptly or trailing straight in line with the rest of that stroke.

The whole thing seems a little too slowly signed and too uniform in weight.

Those are just my thoughts. Why don’t you find exemplars of ones you all agree with as genuine and compare this one to them?

BTW, I’m generally cautious of any Elvis that looks smoothly signed, because his handwriting typically wasn’t polished. The smoothness of this one concerned me from the start.

I’ll be back at a computer tonight sometime. No more long replies from me until then!

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 8, 2018 at 2:10pm

In this case with this source Siri might well have been correct. ;)

I saw some of the things you mentioned but early Elvis is not anything I know much about. Generally, the cut presents itself as overcooked.

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Permalink Reply by Timothy on December 8, 2018 at 5:51pm

Steve,

I think I'm changed my mind. Because I also noticed some strange moments that you've notice in this comment. But at the first sight I didn't paid attention on it. As I said I have some doubts about "K" (but it could be a deformation from name "Cris" to "Kris" as said Don, let's assume that it could be a "true"), but even if it's a true, I agree with you Steve about "To" and "f" - they're really looks very unusual. Plus now I see some atypical things which I didn't see before. And after all I understand that there could be a much more "problems" than just a wrong "K".

BTW, I found one example which we can compare with this signature. I found this picture in google, but I really don't remember where it came from, it was sold at some auction (maybe some members already saw this autograph before). "T" in this autograph looks close like in autograph "To Kris". But I could not find more examples with "T" like this.

So, generally I agree with Steve, he's open my eyes and now I see much more "wrong" places in the signature. + It's a really too smoothly signature (atypical thing for Elvis' handwriting). However, I can assume that it was signed by Elvis, but now I don't feel a sad that I didn't make a bid. Steve, thanks again for this analyze.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 8, 2018 at 2:18pm

I’m in Tim G’s camp here. You might not mind taking a risk at a low price and buying an autograph that later you find is not real, but when you do that you’re telling forgers that it pays to forge.

Every forgery they sell encourages them to forge more.

Think about it: They can spend less than an hour, perhaps a minute or so, forging an autograph and sell it for hundreds of dollars or more.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 8, 2018 at 2:22pm

My approach on eBay autograph listings is different than Steve's. The first thing I review is the seller. If the seller is a known problem, I don't even give the autograph a further glance. I just move on.

In this case, I would have passed on this Elvis signature instantly. I don't seek Elvis so I have no opinion on it's authenticity. Although, some knowledgeable Elvis collectors here like this signature so it's worth a long look. Based on the signature's merits.

Whether it will pass TPA certification is debatable. No one knows. Is it worth the risk? Depends on the potential buyer.

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Permalink Reply by Karsten on December 8, 2018 at 2:34pm

Very interesting discussion here about Sellers, COA and the Autograph. Like very much all opinions here.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on December 8, 2018 at 2:38pm

This discussion is very interesting and brings up important issues. I respect the passion of all that have responded. The question I have is what happens to a rock solid autograph with a "bad" COA or that was purchased from a "bad" seller? Burn them? Mark them with a red "A?" Just because a good autograph ends up in bad hands does that automatically make it poison forever? In my opinion the biggest financial support that the forgery industry has is eBay. Is everyone that buys or sells on eBay therefore a supporter of the forgery industry? Should every autograph that has been sold on eBay become suspect? How many of us have seen forged examples with "good" TPA stickers? It becomes a very slippery slope after while. Every collector has to make their own judgment on who to buy from. There are some I will not deal with for various reasons. For me when evaluating an autograph I pay no attention to COA's I pay attention to the signature, ink, paper etc. As I have said in the past provenance is a wonderful thing but it is the salt not the steak.

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Permalink Reply by Karsten on December 8, 2018 at 5:26pm

Scott I am totally with you. Like you said, burn them or is it poison forever? Every collector has to make his own judgement. And this forum helps to find out is it real or not real. COA’s are very easily to fake. What counts is to pay attention to the signature. And if its real, and a trusted expert like Roger deemed it to be authentic, why not to purchase it. But to read other opinions is interesting. Thats the reason why I like this forum here. Really great. Thank you all.