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Authenticity is Everything
Have professional in-person collectors ruined collecting for true fans?
What's your opinion on the in-person collectors that graph for the sake of selling them onwards. Has it stopped true fans from having their stars sign autographs for them? I'm just asking myself is it even a hobby anymore with all the fuss competing with people for autographs, it seem pretty chaotic with some of the footage you see, people trying to graph when artist are in their cars. In the 90's from what ive read it was fairly casual affair for ip collecting, even if you were to sell a few, your not the worst person in the world. I've purchased a few things of ip collectors, but not a great deal, I'm just saying I'm not any better than anyone else.
Any thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mark Saunders on
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It sterilizes it. Takes away all the magic. If I ever buy an encapsulated autograph, it's coming out of that cell asap.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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When I was a young kid, I (okay, really my parents) paid $10 to meet and get Mickey Mantle's autograph. Yes, hard to believe you could get the Mick'S autograph for only $10! Also, around the same time, I was able to get Hank Aaron's autograph at a Royals game in the last season of his career. I was actually even more excited to get Hank Aaron's autograph because one, as a 10-year-old, I had to chase him down myself right before game time, and two, Hammerin' Hank was the all-time home run king (still is in my mind). When I got Aaron's autograph (on just a piece of paper), I felt like I was on top of the world. But in both instances, monetary value or even future value did not even cross my mind. Back then, having a famous person's autograph had nothing to do with money. It was basically just to be able to brag that you had so-and-so's autograph, and if you got it in-person, it was the thrill of getting to meet them as well.
I think years ago autograph collecting was more pure. It was more for the intrinsic value of the item...as a keepsake. I think years ago if you were to say you had Babe Ruth's autograph or the President's autograph, it was simply something to cherish, something to treasure. Few people thought about any monetary aspect. You were just damn thrilled to have it, plain and simple. But that's all changed now. Money permeates every corner of the autograph world. It is a business. And yes, we are still thrilled to have the autographs of our favorite stars, but most of us also have our senses paying close attention to the autograph's value, myself included. And sometimes, we might not be quite as excited to own the autograph of a particular celebrity if the autograph is not worth at least a little more than change.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Well, I thought it was in-person opportunities being missed because of the amount of "business-related" IP seekers that was on the table here. But I just read about buying a slab and cracking something out. Encapsulation is just a storage method. I might argue it that encapsulation is a very good storage method. The amount of autographs damaged one way or another has decreased a lot because of the plastic. Not unlike coins and plastic. How useful a 1-70 number is when it is trying to express multiple qualities - that's a different thing.
The stuff that comes with encapsulation, the forms, fees, letters and other grading semi-nebulous condition things ...not so helpful. What is the point of grading an autograph for condition but not the item? They are very much dependent on one another.
If contrast and strength of strokes are able to be assessed on a numerical scale, would not additional inscriptions be of more interest/value? Being familiar with each signers inscriptions and so on...too much time. But if these things being bandied about, assigned, and "sold" now are quantifiable, why not others?
Then the idea unsaid implication that something that is slabbed must be genuine is not helpful either. We see it many times a week - someone has bought something based on this or that plastic. Things that facilitate sight unseen buying...or the implication of being able to buy effectively without knowledge because of some plastic...does not help the collector. It is a lot of fees though.
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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I still think there is a lot of ip-person opps being missed because of dealers.The door seems to be a narrowed.
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I agree, but what can be done about it? Extreme...vetting? Show your "Collector Papers"? I got more than one once...
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Nothing much can be done about it,im wrapping up my collection so i wont be buying off them.
Still i would rather meet the artist if possible than lining someone else's.
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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on
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To say the IP sellers are ruining the hobby is just plain not true. For every collector who has, at least, an opportunity to get close enough to a celebrity to get an autograph in person there are a thousand more who never will ever see a celebrity in the flesh. They are providing a service. Although I will say that rudeness is never appropriate.
What is hurting the hobby is forgeries and the cost factor which is driving out or limiting the average person from being able to afford to collect. It takes deep pockets to build a quality collection in the 21st century.
This hobby is no different than what is going on in society in general. Competition is fierce. Would we be having discussion after discussion on the Beatles, Jim Morrison, or Harrison Ford if they were only worth a couple hundred dollars? I think not.
And if people were not, at least partially thinking of autographs as an investment, then nobody is their right mind would spend that kind of money for a signature. Except someone who has more money than common sense.
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Forgeries have always hurt the hobby and business's, and i mentioned before ip-dealers bridge the gap for people who cannot reach that artist, most of the time artist sell their graphs online.
But Axl rose hasnt came out and said i wont sign anymore graphs because there are two many forgeries on ebay.
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Permalink Reply by Peter C. on
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I´m going to be very honest actually and I know that it´s probably going to be controversial attitude.
First... of course the fakes are issue, but actually - fakes are actually issue for autograph business, and because I see autograph business as bad thing for fans, you may even say that fakes are "fan´s friend" (you know - enemy of my enemy is my friend...)... But it doesnt mean that fakes are good thing - of course they are not, it´s fraud - nothing else.Second - it´s actually about question who is fan, who is collector (these are two somewhat mingled groups) and attitude towards the star. I have absolutely no problem with people meeting the star respectfully and asking for let´s say one, two, three autographs during the meeting (on various type of stuff of course)... but I have actually issue with both extremes - "extreme" fans and "extreme" collectors who by coincidence usually act in very similar way - they have a tendency to flood stars with stuff (I know people who are able to ask signing dozens of records and they even think that it´s absolutely appropriate act of being a fan) - and sometimes act in inapporpriate way (manager of star say "one sign each" - they still ask for more items to be signed etc.). Keep the rules and act with respect and decency. Signing an autograph is act of willingness, not fan´s or collector´s right.... My attitude is very different - it´s fine to ask for autograph, but I would NEVER want to see the scenario when my favourite musician would say "no, it´s enough" - simply because it´s exactly the moment when I KNOW that I started to bother him - and I (as fan) simply do NOT want to that as fan (it was actually very nice when my friend asked for 1 autograph of Ian Paice as he wanted to complete full band couple of years back, and Ian simply said "one autograph is not enough, give me one more thing..." - and Ian gave him second one on ticket stub). It´s simply better to ask for less, than getting more stuff spoiled with that memory that star got annoyed to sign for me.... Also - I accept the fact that any star has full right to say "no, I dont want to do that".
I have absolutely no issue with fan selling the item after years when it was obtained because of financial issues or whatever reasons, but I have huge issue with obtaining autograph with previously planned selling the item. Guys asking for signing 5 same photographs or xyz vinyl albums (many of them are the same).... it´s not good thing! Autograph business itself is simply bad stuff, because stars stop signing because of that - do you think they stop to sign because of fakes on ebay? No they stop signing because authentic stuff - I believe they really want to sign for fans and make them happy, but they dont want to be exploited - autograph business actually exploits both sides - stars themselves.... and fans too.... because actually autograph should be about meeting between fan and star, dealer works as mediator who asks for lots of money, when getting autograph is supposed to be for free....
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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on
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For me its a double edged sword. I have bought from some IP collectors and did a little bit in the eighties. I would never have gotten some of these things any other way without paying a fortune. But some of these guys are out of control. There is a whole new group of young kids bothering people at every airport and hotel. You Tube is definitely full of them. I remember a guy cursing Stevie Nicks when she wouldn't sign.No wonder she is so tough,it just enforces in her mind why she shouldn't sign.
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