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Authenticity is Everything
JSA CUSTOMER SERVICE : WHAT A JOKE !
Hi Everyone,
I thought I would share this story with you all. In my collection I have a flag from the 2000 USPGA championships that has been signed by 17 champions and has been to JSA for examination and authentication. On Dec 4th 2013 I informed JSA that there was an error on the letter they issued in which they state the flag is signed by just 16 champions.
It's a full letter so a photo of the flag showing all 17 signatures is there on the letter itself.
Even though JSA had carried out the authentication they came back and still required further, detailed scans of the flag and letter. No admission of mistake.
After numerous e mails, that received no reply from the company, here we are SIX WEEKS later and only now are they admitting the mistake.
Now, wait for it, they will not issue a replacement (and correct) letter unless I pay to return their erroneous letter FIRST or pay a $25 re-print fee!
They want ME to pay to correct THEIR mistake and they write, and I quote :
"I am sorry sir but that is our policy"
How surreal, unfair and illegal is that?
Happy New Year to everyone and all best wishes for 2014 and successful collecting.
David
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on
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No need to apologize. Keep in mind that you would not fake 16 or 17 signatures on another Valhalla flag but a dishonest person may do just that. I think they are just being precautious. That's all.
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Permalink Reply by 2si9gjw9em85g on
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David, I see your reasoning. If what you are reporting is correct then what JSA is asking is similar to a Burger King making your sandwich incorrectly and they asking you to return the one they made and then demanding payment to make you another one. That just seems way off.
They contracted service that you paid for was not provided in the scenario that you have presented.
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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They would not charge him anything to correct the mistake if he returned the erroneous letter.
I doubt if Burger King would give you a free sandwich if you left the building and came back an hour later and said your sandwich was made wrong and you ate the sandwich but now you decided you wanted one to replace it.
In essence, by not returning the erroneous letter, that is what David is doing.
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Ummm, JSA appears to have agreed that they screwed up. If the photos they have on file show 17 signatures and they provided a LOA stating there were 16 then it should not matter if the "mistake" was caught the minute he received his item in the mail or 6 months after the fact. He has photos and apparently so does JSA of the item in question with 17 signatures on it. That isn't fulfilling the contract he paid for.
The damaged party isn't JSA. It is David. He paid a fee to have a LOA generated if his item was deemed to have authentic signatures. It appears the item had 17 not 16 signatures on it that are authentic and JSA agrees with that. His LOA should state that.
What I think I find most interesting about this whole thread is how sided it is for JSA.
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Permalink Reply by wascher on
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How is David "damaged?" The remedy is and was so simple. They admit they goofed (if indeed this is what happened, since we only have one side). According to David they say return the bad COA, and we'll send you the corrected one. In my opinion (and a few others here), because the "bad COA" could potentially be used in a "bad situation" later, they want to insure that doesn't happen.
I applaud them for doing this. They are making sure someone else does not get a fraudulent item later with an incorrect COA. To me this is the RESPONSIBLE thing to do.
"What I find most interesting" is that people would consider this bad business.
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Hi Wascher, I really dont wish to prolong this any further but your post does raise two issues (1) How could the bad CoA be used in "a bad situation" infuture ? And (2) if JSA feel that is possible then why allow me to pay $25 and they WILL send me another one WITHOUT me having to return the first LoA?
If I really was planning on being unscrupulous I could, For just $25, get myself two LoAs ... Does that make sense?
Many thanks for your thoughts, they are much appreciated. Have a great 2014, David
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"(1) How could the bad CoA be used in "a bad situation" infuture ?"
It's already been spelled out numerous times. I don't think having to repeat it is really necessary, especially since you answered it with question #2
"(2) if JSA feel that is possible then why allow me to pay $25 and they WILL send me another one WITHOUT me having to return the first LoA?"
More than likely (and this is my guess) they are hoping you return it--and not want to pay $25 for a new one. And your right you COULD be unscrupulous and get a 2nd one if you wanted to pop the first one on a forgery--for $25. They can't force you to return it. But then they won't write a new one either.
And to MPB - Forget I even asked lol. I didn't think you'd go all the way into damages of having to put it into a new envelope with a stamp and sending it back.
I still say bravo for JSA wanting a bad COA back.
Let us know how it goes.
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JSA is asking David to believe that they will correct their mistake. In essence he is being asked to take a leap of faith that a company he went into a contract with will complete the job. However, his experience with them is that 1) they do not complete the work they are contracted to complete, and 2) they argue for 6 weeks that they did the job correctly even through they had evidence via the photo showing they did not.
Most people would be hesitant to mail in the erroneous LOA after the experience JSA put him through. Why would David or anyone else be expected to believe JSA is going to follow through, correct their error, and send the correct LOA this time after the treatment David went through in his dealings with JSA?
David’s damages –
- His time battling JSA to get them to recognize their mistake
- Being required to pay for postage to return the erroneous LOA he was sent back to them
- Cost of the envelop to mail the item back
- Time to and from the Post Office
- Gas to and from the Post Office
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JSA was contracted to do a specific job. David has reported that the job they finished was incomplete and they sent out an erroneous document as the finished product. From what has been provided in this thread they have even admitted their mistake in messages with David. Little lost on the $ 25.00 fee to have the incorrectly generated letter of authenticity replaced. From the information provided the contracted work was not performed. Thus, the contract was not fulfilled as reported by David. Asking David to incur further expenses by telephoning JSA is a bizarre request as he has to make an international phone call. JSA has already demonstrated that they can reply to his request via e-mail.
Why JSA isn't going out of their way to provide a solution to the issue is strange. I'd like to know what their position on this is and why they are seek 25.00 more dollars to correct the "mistake" that David advises they made and he says they owned up to.
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They have a policy in place to handle correcting mistakes which humans will make from time to time and they have a right not to deviate from that policy. They require the original erroneous letter to be returned before a corrected one is issued.
David refuses to follow their policy. They would require the same thing on an erroneous letter sent to a US customer as it has happened to me before and I live in the US.
It is not their fault that he lives in New Zealand. Had he simply mailed the erroneous letter back in early December when he started communicating with them through email, he would already have the corrected letter in his possession.
Yes, they made a mistake but he has exasperated the situation by being stubborn.
I doubt if losing his future submissions will put them out of business.
I'm certain they will out stubborn him in this instance on principal alone.
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Permalink Reply by Tom Schwartz on
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From what I understand, the $25 fee only applies if David doesn't send back to them the incorrect LOA, which he seems steadfast in not doing for some reason.
For David's sake, I'm just worried that the more pushback he gives regarding sending the letter back, the possibility increases that someone in JSA customer service will make sure he never receives a replacement. Human nature often wins out in matters like this, after all.
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Randy, I fail to see how I am being stubborn when all i expected was an admission of the error, an undertaking to get a replacement on the way and I would have HAPPILY Had the original letter in the mail back to JSA the same day. Then again, maybe that is seen by JSA as stubborness :)
Randy, if I follow your line of thought, i would have to agree with you that JSA Would out-stubborn me. This matter has troubled and distressed me ... I don't think JSA are in the slightest concerned about that.
MPB, Tom is correct, JSA only want a $25 fee if I am not willing to return the original Which I am and always have been willing to do.
Thinking about that point and some earlier comments - it would appear that JSA are not too worried about having 'orphan' LoAs in circulation because if I were to pay $25 then I could get a second letter and I would then have BOTH LoAs in my possession. As has been pointed out earlier in this discussion, that opens the door to forgery. Very difficult, I feel but that was the point that was made.
ANYWAY MANY MANY thanks to youand everyone who has taken the time and trouble to post in this discussion, it always helps to share a problem.
I think the general consensus would be to jst either keep the erroneous letter and shut up or send it back and forget the whole thing. If JSA send a eeplacement all well and good, if they don't well .. I will just have to live with that.
I think I will go with the latter choice.
Best wishes to all
David
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