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Authenticity is Everything
Laughable Scott Stapp Autograph
This is by far the worst forgey I have ever seen. The forger didn't even try. It looks as if this ebay sellar simply wrote a signature hoping nobody wourld cross reference. I offered one dollar on this 200 dollar buy it now piece of crap. The COA is issued as...you guessed it...by the seller. Look up an authenticated PSA/DNA Stapp. There's literally no attempt at similarity here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scott-Stapp-Creed-Alter-Bridge-Signed-Autog...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rich on
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Well, I'll start with the disclaimer that I'm not a Creed fan and have never bothered to search for or look at a Stapp autograph.
Here's my impression: I've come across this seller's inventory before, and the few items I recognized struck me as looking legit. He seems to be an in person collector for the Chicago area. I noticed him put up a number of items after Lollapalooza and Chicago Comic Con. I don't know most of the autographs he sells or how his operation runs, but my initial instinct was that this is a good in-person seller. Most items are from rising music stars and celebs. Not a load of household names in the mix.
Thant being said, here are my questions:
1) Are you accounting for the fact that this item is an awkward shape (curved microphone handle, not a flat)? I've seen a number of signed microphones before, and honestly, most of the turn out looking like crap from what I've seen.
2) Are you using PSA as the only reference for comparison? Both PSA and JSA have been called out numerous times for being surprisingly weak in music authentication. There are many, many in-person collectors out there who provide their own COA (or not) who are an infinitely safer bet than just looking for a PSA sticker.
3) What do you think of the other 5 Stapp items he's selling?
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Permalink Reply by Nate Chipotle on
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I would expect the signature to look different, but Stapp's signature doesnt typically follow such a pattern where mutliple consecutive letters are legible. One way to think about them is that they look like an S or Z with two lines going down through them. The shape doesn't matter as much to me here. It's more so the entire signature, and the fact that Stapp's autographs are not so comparatively "neat."
That brings me to my second response; no PSA/DNA is not my only criteria. They have been called out for certifiying fakes in all areas. That's why I found the initial signature so disturbing. I strongly disagree with those who think that this signature looks compressed here. It does not. It looks like an entirely different signature with a half hearted attempt at the real thing.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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It's signed on an odd item. Hard round plastic would look crazy when compared to a flat item. Hard to tell. I've never searched for Scott Stapp autographs since I'm not a fan. I looked at sellers other items that I am familiar with and they all look spot on. Actually has some nice stuff. I dont see any red flags with this guy.
Hopefully you didn't call out a legit seller.
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Red Flag #1: Does not show COA.
Red Flag #2: Seller claims that item will pass PSA/DNA or JSA. Why not get the item certified, then? Plenty of sellers do it.
Red Flag #3: The item in question does not reflect a distorted Stapp, but a new Stapp altogether.
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By that logic, anyone could claim to be a in-person collector and just not have them. Even so, the best COA's are nothing more than COA's, but it should strike any buyer as a red flag when a seller claims to have a COA but does not show it.
It would be better for sellers like this to not even issue one, but to offer a guarantee of authentication (as this seller does). Still, even these offers make me churn, as sellers have to know that the average buyer is not going to bother with authenticaiton. Smart smellers authenticate with reputable companies and build that cost in the price. That decreases competitive advantage, but smart buyers know that the real stuff is rarely acquired at a steal.
In a market where over 80 percent of the merchandise is garbage, I wouldn't buy from someone who advertises a COA but does not show it. It must be nice to be so unwaveringly trusting.
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Plenty of bad sellers selling fake issue COAs and show them readily on Ebay. In-person collectors on Ebay sell based on how their autographs look and the strength of their reputation, not because of a piece of paper. Whatever COA they issue is usually to appease less knowledgable buyers who think a piece of paper proves authenticity. Smarter collectors know it isn't necessary since they're buying straight from the source. It's up to the collector to figure out who the reputable sellers are and who aren't.
The "smart sellers authenticate with reputable companies" bit isn't true. PSA and JSA make lazy and errant calls all the time. Plenty of the best collectors and dealers know that they probably aren't worth their time because of how uneven they are and leave it up to the buyer whether they want to bother. I never recommend a purchase based on one of those stickers. I suggest buyers look at the quality of the autograph (i.e. don't buy a scribble or especially bad example) and reputation of the seller.
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The fact that PSA and JSA make mistakes doesn't mean that they aren't reputable. Who on earth could expect perfection from a company that deals with such volume, especially in an industry flooded with fakes? If a seller chooses to authenticate, he's going to do so with a reputable company. That's all I really mean there. As to the reputation, that can figure in part, but those reputations are largely based off of eBay feedback. Ok, how useful is that as a unique marker? Plenty of forgeries come from sellers with super high ratings.
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I am with you on the "guaranteed to pass any major authentication company" bit. Too many sellers, good and bad, use that bit and it's ridiculous. Too many modern autographs aren't even "authenticable," which is where PSA and JSA seem to get in trouble. Still, I think even the good ones are left wondering how to play the game. They can't say that PSA and JSA aren't all good, when that would immediately alienate many buyers who think they are.
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That is true; PSA and JSA should probably be rejecting items on the basis of lack of knowledge/history or expertise. They can't possibly have experts on everyone.
The way I figure, though, is that collecting is based off of probability. It stands to reason that a PSA authenticated autograph is probably "more likely" to be the real thing. Probabilities and actualities are two different things, however, and unless you live on sunset blvd you will be dealing with probabilities.
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Why pay PSA or JSA to authenticate a Stapp signature? Would cost more to authenticate it than the signature is worth.
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Depends on the item and buyer. I would pay more to have something authenticated if I wanted to know that I were more likely to be holding the real goods. Authentication is not always about the purchase price to the buyer. Sometimes it is about having a deeper sense of certainty, which one can't have too much of in the collection hobby.
I've purchased PSA autographs with authentation for anywhere from 40-100 dollars. It can be worth it to the seller, and it is usually worth it to the buyer. Value is relative.
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