Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
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“Signed” copies of Liza Minelli’s new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Overlay Video 1 (click title to play video)
Note how “Liza” matches up (click title)
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath.
That signature appears to match a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that the signature pattern in the autographed books seems very close to that same example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
Cover with member’s autograph - overlap example video
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Hey Matt M. you must be dizzy and seeing these Liza exemplars in your sleep like I am.
The video of the varying template high end autopen that I had cited and was posted by
Jason H confirms what we've speculated from the start.
Liza definitely used an autopen to "sign" these books.
I feel that her script was broken into various puzzle pieces/templates that could be randomly chosen and put together in many combinations. The L in Love, The ove in Love, The L and . in Liza, the Z in Liza, the a in Liza, and finally those tell tale smiley faces.
Now add a little "bump" here and there as Eric Keith Longo suggested and you've got a multitude of "autographs" that would (and are) fooling the unsuspecting buyers, collectors and fans.
BUYER BEWARE, SHAME!
jj
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Lol yeah - when I finally closed my eyes last night, I was seeing flashes of overlapping L‘s.
Totally agree about the individual components like you were saying. I’m going to try and focus on that today, matching up individual components. I’d really like to find matches in one of the Premiere examples. With that, I’d be interested to see what JSA has to say.
I also think some media attention as an order. I emailed.Variety, who picked up and ran with the Dylan story, but haven’t seen any articles yet online. Anyone who wants to help get the word out, feel free to do so. I feel like this would help inform others who are not following this site, and also give us some leverage on the returns/refunds.
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Anybody who has one from Premiere and hasn’t posted it, could you post a picture for me to use? I’ve got some, but just trying to build a collection of those. Again, I’m trying not to use eBay and would prefer just to have members post their own. Some of those bookplate ones would be good.
Anybody who hasn’t posted their example from Barnes, Waterstones, etc., feel free to do so if you’re interested in helping! I think I’ve got plenty, but I’m still interested to try new ones.
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Permalink Reply by michelle
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I did speak to waterstones head office about the autopens but they were still maintaining that the books had been handsigned by her
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Interesting, good to know. I was wondering where things stood for those who had initiated the return process. I’ve been so busy that I haven’t even done anything about my own copy. I was kind of hoping that this would gain sufficient attention to make it an easy process.
This probably won’t gain the level of attention of the Dylan situation, as these books were the same price as the unsigned editions. (Of course, the Dylan autopen books had a hefty markup).
So we’re going to run into that – we didn’t pay any extra for the “autograph” in this case. But of course, I would not have bought it if it wasn’t for the signature.
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Permalink Reply by BarkyDoos
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I posted mine from Premiere earlier. Let me know if you need me to send it to you.
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I’ve got it, thanks for the reminder and for posting it. I’m going to be working on that in a little bit. Just making sure - you received JSA authentication, correct?
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This is from Liza's September Instagram:
She says "I guess this is what ya call Proof of concept" !!! LMAO
Shows her signing one of the probably many sample pages that likely got
chopped up into puzzle piece templates AND fed into the autopen machine,,,
"If I knew it was going to be so much work I would have done it any...
YA, RIGHT!!!..
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This is also a story of extreme greed and stupidity by Liza and management. Had less been 'signed' it would have been harder to work out they were autopens
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Thanks for sharing that full post. I had found that picture when I was first reading on another forum about potential use of AI voice technology in her audiobook. Someone posted that picture but not her full post. They were saying that the picture appeared staged to suggest she actually did record the audiobook. When I noticed that she was also signing in the picture, I thought, we’ve seen this before in the context of staged signing pictures. I was wondering what the Description in her post said and if it made any note of what was going on in the photo. Interesting….
The forum discussion I reference above is linked below if interested. I have to give these folks credit- they were on it early on that something was not right with the whole situation.
https://forum.broadwayworld.com/thread/Liza-book-promotion-chat-/5
Also should give credit to whoever put that Facebook photo group together and thank you to Jimmy James for sharing that here. Someone was doing their homework there as some of those examples match up well with each other, along with ones posted here.
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Checking in Matt M. , thank you for the Broadwayworld forum link.
Yep, they smelled something to be off too.
The consensus is that Liza used AI to "read" her audiobook version.
Though she denies it.
More and more forums and fans are concurring that the "autographs" are autopens.
I thought this guy TheatreFan4 nailed the current state of affairs with all things Liza and
what michelle and all of us are feeling right now: (click on the image and it should read properly)
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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If anyone out there has placed an order for this with JSA authentication and you are still waiting for your package, could you let us know here? Premiere states to add 1 to 2 weeks if JSA is ordered so I believe orders for this may still be processing. Please let us know the status of your order if you can. Also let us know if premiere decides to cancel your order entirely
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