Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sam Iam on January 8, 2015 at 6:09pm

So it is from you, son

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Permalink Reply by Face on January 8, 2015 at 12:34pm

Check this out guys... You can see the moment when the picture was taken at 0:09...

Click on the link below... It's a 11 second video, I edited it to be shorter... And the video is a REAL VIDEO, it was not altered... It is not a forgery... 

MJ Record

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on January 8, 2015 at 1:01pm

Good find, Face and interesting comments.

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Permalink Reply by michelle on January 8, 2015 at 1:53pm

yes- +1

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Permalink Reply by Scott W. Arnold on January 8, 2015 at 2:37pm

Again thank you anonymous user in helping to clear this up with sound facts. Scott

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on January 8, 2015 at 9:13pm

Nice Mike. Can't wait to see it.

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Permalink Reply by Prashant Kaushik on January 8, 2015 at 6:01pm

Mike, I will make a SERIOUS offer to you right now.  If you can prove to me BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that that somehow I was able to buy a cheap knockoff of your PAAS sticker and put it on the lower left part of the album, that I created that COA and somehow forged that signature of yours, and/or I bought the album with your COA already and that I did not send it in myself for authentication, I will personally pay you $5000!

Please, enough of your accusations on me.  You can't prove anything you are saying and you and only you are ruining your own reputation with your half-truths and lies.  And honestly I don't want your refund.  The biggest loss is you lost a loyal customer, a customer that praised you for years, a customer that recommended you to others.  Your biggest mistake is how you treat your loyal customers.   That in itself will be the unfortunate downfall of your reputation.  As for me, I am just a collector, nothing less, nothing more. 

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on January 8, 2015 at 6:18pm

 

Where did I Ever accuse you of anything like this????  I never thought you did anything at all wrong except not telling the complete story or where you have been buying these items from.  There are no other accusations on you. You know better then most about P.A.A.S. knock offs, nobody was better then you for locating them for me.   

I ask you once again did you consign any art to Memorabilia Vault?  A simple no will do.

From: xxxxxxxe@hotmail.com
To: whoodee711@aol.com
Sent: 3/22/2012 3:33:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: (no subject)

 

Mike,
 
Can you please let me know if in fact you deemed the following authentic or is this another fake PAAS COA?
 
Thanks,
Prashant

 

From: xxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
To: whoodee711@aol.com
Sent: 4/25/2012 7:19:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: RE: P.A.A.S. AUTHENTICATION

 

Hmm...that's strange Mike.  I just talked to him and he still believes they are authentic.
 
Do you think Michael's autograph is fake or is it some of the signatures on the vinyl?

 

 

 

 

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From: VXXXXX @hotmail.com
To: whoodee711@aol.com
Sent: 6/26/2011 10:41:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time

 

Mike,

Here is an example of a seller, creating forged paper certificates using the PAAS logo and your signature:

http://cgi.ebay.it/MICHAEL-JACKSON-SIGNED-AUTOGRAPH-COA-/2905812076...

I know there are more.  I will look later for them.

 

Prashant

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From: Whoodee711@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 11:34:36 -0400
Subject: Re: ebay auction opinion
To: xxxxxxxx@hotmail.com

Please continue to forward these.

Ebay is aware of most , we have even located fake certificates for both JSA and P.A.A.S 

Thank you

Mike Frost

P.A.A.S.

 

In a message dated 6/26/2011 11:30:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, xxxxx@hotmail.com writes:

Not a problem Mike...I have seen a number of these via sellers from Europe.

 

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From: Whoodee711@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:34:59 -0400
Subject: Re: P.A.A.S. AUTHENTICATION
To: xxxxxxe@hotmail.com

No those are not authentic and for some reason Bob is saying he does not know about them.

Thanks

Mike

 

From: Whoodee711@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:38:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Signed Original Drawing
To: XXXXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com

Prashant,

I am very sorry but both of these drawing seem to have many issues with authenticity.

 

Not likely to be genuine: Our authenticators believe that the item, if physically submitted to P.A.A.S. for examination, would likely not receive our certificate of authenticity.

**Please note this based upon a scan. The only way to truly examine and authenticate an autograph is to physically examine the signature, the ink and the item that has been signed.

Thank you for trust in P.A.A.S.

For more information on P.A.A.S. Authentication Services please see www.paasautographs.com or call (954) 450-4283..

Thank you,

Michael Frost

P.A.A.S.

 

 

 

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From: XXXXXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com
To: whoodee711@aol.com
Sent: 5/3/2012 10:00:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: RE: Thriller

 

Mike,
 
Thanks for the response.
 
I am curious to know how come you think this is likely not to be genuine vs. the likely to be genuine? 
They look the same to me...please advise.
 
thanks,
Prashant
 

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From: Whoodee711@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 10:12:33 -0400
Subject: Re: FW: Thriller
To:XXXXXXXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com

Michael Jackson Thriller// Via Scan

 Not likely to be genuine: Our authenticators believe that the item, if physically submitted to P.A.A.S. for examination, would likely not receive our certificate of authenticity.

**Please note this based upon a scan. The only way to truly examine and authenticate an autograph is to physically examine the signature, the ink and the item that has been signed.

Thank you for trust in P.A.A.S.

For more information on P.A.A.S. Authentication Services please see www.paasautographs.com or call (954) 450-4283..

Thank you,

Michael Frost

P.A.A.S.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 9, 2015 at 12:31am

Everybody:

Stop ganging up on Mike. First of all, I can attest that he has done stellar work on Michael Jackson autographs recently. He has put tons of hours into authenticating the signed drawings and I feel he has been doing this work thoroughly and professionally. And it's time he's not getting paid for, beyond perhaps the small amount The Memorabilia Vault may have paid him to authenticate them.

Even the best third party authenticators make mistakes...and big ones sometimes. Legit third party authentication companies have only existed since the later 1990s--it's a young field. But mistakes and all, the autograph field is far safer today with them than it was without them. In 5 or 10 years autograph collecting will be even safer, but there will always be bumps in the road.

Prashant, I see you giving your opinion on Michael Jackson autographs all the time on this site, and best I recall, you always say the autograph is genuine. But the vast majority of the ones you said were genuine were obvious forgeries to me and most others who gave their opinions. Based on that, if there weren't legitimate TPAs, you might not have one genuine Michael Jackson in your collection.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 9, 2015 at 12:42am

You want proof how threatened some are by legitimate authenticators?

Here's an email from 2011 that Mike Frost sent me a couple years ago that says it all:

From: SKoschal@aol.com
To: Whoodee711@aol.com
Sent: 1/14/2011 3:47:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Phone call

Just had lengthy conversation with Dave Wakefield. During the conversation he made it a three way call with Chris Morales.  Interesting!  They want us all to get together for lunch and talk a game plan of putting Epperson/Spence to rest.  What they say makes sense and Wakefield is full of good info.

Stephen Koschal
P.O. Box 311061
Miami, FL 33231

www.stephenkoschal.com

Chris Morales is probably the most prolific fraudulent authenticator in the history of autographs. Dave Wakefield is a well-known source of rock forgeries; including the so-called "mega-signed guitars" that had everyone from Elvis to U2 on them, Beatles "signed" guitars, and on and on.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on January 9, 2015 at 7:58am

Steve,

 What you say about Morales and Wakefield is spot on. Yeah Mike may have sent these to you but looks to me like Mike was in the middle of all this and associated with all these guys. They didn't just randomly send him these emails outlining these plans and conversations. These folks thought they had his confidence to send him these. Looks like he was pals with these guys and just as involved. He may have sent you all these emails well after the fact. What we don't see in any of these are the replies and the involvement he had in all this. I don't see any of the responses he made to all these emails.

 With his experience and years in the business he knew full well who all these people were. He chose to associate himself with them. He has ridden both sides of the hobby fence. Does he change sides when he wears out his welcome? He obviously had a falling out with this crowd is the only reason he ever sent those to you. I'm sure you already know that though. 

  I think Mike is a good authenticator. He is a super knowledgeable guy no question. I think he volunteers his time answering questions and being a part of this board is good. I know nobody is perfect and mistakes are made. I just think when the questions get hard we see one sided emails like these as well as Mike getting very defensive rather than just admitting a mistake. That's what is rubbing some folks the wrong way about all this.

 

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on January 10, 2015 at 11:21am

Thanks Mike. I've seen some of these posted before. The email you got was in Jan 2011. The response to Koschal was Nov 2012. There's a huge gap there. I was more interested in seeing your immediate replies during the plotting and dirt slinging. I'm guessing you were equally involved and Turned only when you had a falling out. My opinion is you ride both sides of the fence until you wear out your welcome or it no longer benefits you. You may not be a bad guy anymore but you're no victim either.

No need to post anymore emails. I don't really want to take this thread anymore off course. I wish you the best in getting to the bottom of all this MJ stuff and I'll be watching it unfold. I've learned a ton from this as my MJ knowledge is very minimal. You all involved are much more experienced then me no question.

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