Authenticity is Everything
Muhammad Ali signed card - thoughts?
A year or two ago I bought a postcard of Shanghai bearing Ali's autograph. The seller was from Switzerland. The card was apparently signed by Ali when he travelled to China in 1985. I find Ali's autograph very difficult to analyze but I took a punt on this as it came with a plausible private photo of Ali boarding a China Airways/Airlines flight that was developed in June 1985, the month after Ali's second visit to China. The postcard was also printed in China. If this is the work of a forger the forger went to a great deal of trouble and the amount I paid certainly wouldn't have made all the effort worthwhile. I'm not sure if the pencilled date on the card is accurate. I know that Ali was in Shanghai on 20 May 1985 and it was a ten day trip but I don't actually know when he arrived and left. Any thoughts?
Front of card and photo
Back of card and photo
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by AustinCollector on
-
Assuming this is live ink, I believe this to be authentic and would pass professional authentication. Not seeing anything here that concerns me. Consistent for a mid-1980s signature.
-
Permalink Reply by Steve To AustinCollector on
-
I have an 8x10 from the same era that looks like this
-
-
Yes, there was about a two-year period where he signed in this fashion. I have several from this period, and have collected Ali for about 25 years. This is a garden variety example of an authentic signature considering flow, pen strokes, pauses, slants, angles and all of those nuances.
Shawn Anderson's website is a good resource if you're not already familiar: https://www.aliautos.com/exemplars
-
Permalink Reply by a pug called eva To AustinCollector on
-
Thank you very much AustinCollector! I had a good feeling about the autograph but mainly because of what it was on, what it came with and the way the whole story fitted with Ali's visit to China. My only slight concern was that the seller misidentified the man behind Ali as the guy who obtained the autograph. I think he is actually one of Ali's staff. I presume it was the photographer who obtained the autograph. It is definitely live ink.
-
-
A quick follow-up question for you AustinCollector (or for any other long-time Ali collector): Did anyone sign secretarial autographs for Ali while he was on the road in the mid-80s? I ask because I have another Ali that has an extremely plausible back story but appears atypical in some ways. I posted this some time ago and got a thumbs down from all three people who responded. Here is a link to that discussion (the links within it no longer work):
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/muhammad-ali-1984-a...
-
-
I can't say for certain whether he had someone on staff signing for him, but it’s certainly possible. As you're likely aware, there are far more forged autographs of Ali in circulation than authentic ones. That said, Ali did sign extensively, both in person and through scheduled or private signings.
As for the linked example, I understand why some have raised concerns, but overall, the signature fits within the range of what I'd expect for that period. There are a few unusual characteristics, but nothing that would raise a red flag for me. In short, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase this. I believe you're on solid ground with both signatures.
-
-
Thank you very much again AustinCollector! I never gave up hope on this second Ali but also never plucked up the courage to send it for authentication or even get a "quick opinion" on it.
Back in 2017 I listed out some reasons why I was still hopeful. These didn't actually include the fact that the lady I bought it off was of the right age to have obtained it in 1984 and seemed totally innocent/honest. This is what I wrote:
Thanks Steve, obviously I'd rather have had a different opinion but I can see where you are coming from. I'm not giving up hope just yet based on a few things from the site you pointed me to:
1. The variations in the "genuine" examples shown.
2. Certain aspects of the autograph and inscription that look pretty similar to the "genuine" examples shown (e.g. the date). If this is secretarial the secretary paid quite a lot of attention to small details.
3. The fact that this was signed quite late on in Ali's career and while he was travelling. I'm not sure he would have needed to have a "signer" or would have used one for a personally dedicated piece to someone working with/in the tour party itself.
4. None of the "secretarial" examples really looks the same and no mention is made of someone who signed for Ali on tours.
5. The general feel of the piece and the somewhat shaky handwriting that might be expected of someone with Parkinson's.
I realise that the above list sounds like it comes from someone who wants to delude himself about authenticity, even if the piece didn't cost a lot.
Maybe my next step should be to send an image to the aliautos site manager and see what he thinks.
Thanks again Steve.
By way of a thank you, I'm attaching some Ali-related pages from a Zurich night club guest book. I bought these many moons ago at another flea market in Zurich and posted them here some years ago but you may not have seen them. The first bears the autograph of Drew Bundini Brown and the second of boxers Dave Adkins and Alonzo Johnson. The autographs are from the end of 1971 and I'm sure that all three gentleman were in Zurich for the Ali - Blin fight that took place on Boxing Day (!).. As far as I can tell DBB's autograph is pretty scarce.
-
-
Normally when I hear "back story" as a basis for determining authenticity I cringe.
In any case, I'm not sure the back story on the China piece is wrong, just maybe misinterpreted or miscommunicated.
"My only slight concern was that the seller misidentified the man behind Ali as the guy who obtained the autograph. I think he is actually one of Ali's staff. I presume it was the photographer who obtained the autograph."
My assumption would be that the staff member facilitated the request rather than got it signed for himself. The owner probably asked the staff member for permission or assistance to approach Ali.
-
-
Has anyone seen a legit Ali signed photo with the Beatles? Would love to get one.
© 2025 Created by Steve Cyrkin, Admin.
Powered by
Badges | Report an Issue | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
