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Authenticity is Everything
Ray Charles signature study (just a start...)
I posted this earlier on another Ray Charles post but everyone got sucked into another matter.
I took two signed contract signatures as well as a 1988 signed 5x6 photo from Ray Charles Enterprises. We all know the full name cursive signatures are surely not real and I have seen dozens of these 5x6 photos of Ray signed with the fake full name signature. But this one, is different then the rest, the letter that came with it from Ray Charles's office states that they are sorry for running out the larger versions so please accept this smaller one instead. Is this Ray's actual signature? His real signature? I mean, it's on several contracts I have seen over the years and to me, it's looks like a blind mans interpretation of "Ray Charles". I personally feel Ray could sign more then block letters, he wasn't born blind and surely he could write some, or at least draw or doodle and I am sure he had at least seen writing so unlike Stevie Wonder he had a clue what writing even was and how it looked so I feel he could have taught himself over the years. idk, if you post that these are from a helper can you please post who signed his name like this, and also how you are sure of this? Thanks, and if someone could get Roger Epperson involved that would be great to try to work together and put together a solid Ray Charles signature (or lack there of) study.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on
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I'm personally no autograph expert Steve so I'd never give an opinion on anyone else's autographs. What i can say on the ones I'm collating are that they are from the personal experiences of the owner of the ones I've posted and his experience of meeting Ray Charles rather than a bought autograph. My personal expertise is in the live UK music scene through various periods including this one of the early 1960's. I would only be guessing if i was to try and explain (assuming all the others are authentic) why there may be differences other than that he was blind and may have been signing them on different services below. What I will say is that when Paul met him there was only 4 of them there so he wasn't doing them in any sort of rushed manner with lots of fans around them. He was just there at the stage door with his manager or assistant with two excited English boys in front of them and he took the time to sign multiple autographs for them and chat to them.
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Just had a chat with Paul about the question above on the number of autographs he got from Ray Charles. Paul and his friend used to ask for a lot of autographs and would get as many as they could get away with usually, So it was usually limited either by the patience of the star or the number of pictures they had with them or the number of other people waiting. They would quite often go to venues quite early or the hotels they were staying at so they would be the only ones there. In the case of some stars they would get an awful lot like when they got dozens off the Beatles at the 1962 meet they had with them and a few more when he met them in March and June of 1963. Some artists didn't mind and some like Adam Faith and Lesley Gore invited them back stage and sat them down whilst they signed the autographs and chatted to them. In the case of Ray Charles, Paul has just told me he wasn't finding it easy to do the autographs and was going quite slowly so they didn't push him beyond two each. They met a lot of people back then but Ray Charles was really one of the special ones.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Stumpel on
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That's Ray Charles Offenberg, "the other Ray Charles".
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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:...These are from a personally collected collection of hand-written face-to-face autographs. So I know the authenticity of the autographs and their stories...."
Nope. Simple stamp.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Since someone asked me about it, my Ray Charles is in RR this month, the auction closing tomorrow.
It's the one signed for Donna Marie Hayes in 1961. I made a donation to a charity she supports for it, back in 2014. She wanted to raise a certain amount for the charity, set the number, and I thought about it and said yes.
There's a video of her talking about getting it in the listing.
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Just had a look as was interested in the price estimate as i think we will sell one of ours. RR have put on an estimate of $5000 on yours. My main unassisted Ray is in an NME end of year magazine with 50+ other autographs from stars throughout 1963. Out of interest I sent that one over to Julien's to take a look at as I was trying to work out a price and wondered what they thought. Darren valued it at $200 !!! You can read what you wish into their estimate but I'd say it sticks a question mark on them
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It's hard to put a price on it. This is the first one they have offered for sale as far back as I've been able to check, and it has living provenance: a video interview from the lady who got it when she was Miss Cupertino, Calif. in 1961-2.
It has the same characteristics as the signed photo in the book by Ray's European manager, too.
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It was also was the first one Epperson ever approved, but I don't know if he approved any since.
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I don't really mix in autograph hunter circles so i don't really know who Roger is.
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Roger Epperson, the leading modern music specialist authenticator: roger@rogerepperson.com
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Ah okay I'll take a look. Not come across him before although I might have seen his name in this forum elsewhere. I don't really buy autographs which is why I don't know people like Roger. I only collect autographs I took face-to-face myself or personally know the person who did. My interest is in the music, history and era my collections come from. Buying autographs looks like a bit of a mine-field.
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I like the way they've done the video with Donna. The collection I'm collating and selling some of is owned by the person who got the autographs face-to-face. I've been collating the stories to put in a book for him but actually doing a video story is quite good, i like that they've done. I've no idea what an unassisted Ray Charles autographs is worth when the the worlds of things like ebay are packed full of Ray Charles fakes. I was disappointed in Julien's response which I found very suspect but I appreciate its a rare one to authenticate and sell. I guess when you can't see to write then its not really an autograph as we know it, plus you don't know if the environment was quiet and un-rushed, plus understand what surface the autographs is done on. lot's of factors might affect a blind mans autograph. Mine was taken on a quiet afternoon with just Ray+manager/assistant and my friend and his friend. So just four people and not hurried.
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