Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dobby Doberson on April 21, 2022 at 1:14pm

No offense taken… I personally like my bookplates encapsulated (it’s easier to protect and store). I do it with every book I buy including the Obama/Springsteen and Keith Richards book (which had no problem passing authentication cut out of the book). The autograph is the valuable item… not the book.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on April 21, 2022 at 1:56pm

I have to disagree with you on this. When it comes to the Genesis books, the value is as a well crafted signed limited edition book. While the autograph still holds value, the book has now lost all value. 

It is obviously what you wished to do with your own money spent. I personally feel there are plenty of cuts and signatures on paper of Ringo out there in the world (he isn't very rare) and that in this case the book should have been kept intact in my own opinion. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on April 21, 2022 at 2:05pm

+1

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on April 21, 2022 at 2:06pm

+1

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Permalink Reply by Jason H on April 21, 2022 at 2:13pm

This is a very personal choice and is why I created the thread about a Bernie Taupin signed book. I wanted the autograph cut and matted with an Elton signature.  This was a thorough discussion looking at this from all angles before making my decision. Here's the link to that thread.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/bernie-taupin-signe...

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on April 21, 2022 at 2:26pm

But out of five pages only 2 members agreed with you and in the end you did not cut the book, yes?

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Permalink Reply by Jason H on April 21, 2022 at 2:46pm

I just skimmed through it again to make sure I have an exact number. 4 people, in their own way, said it shouldn't be cut. In the end, I did not cut this out. My decision may have been skewed because I own a signed check from Taupin which I can frame instead.. i do believe if it was my only Taupin signature, I would still have came to the same decision and leave it in the book. 

Ive cut the renegades book as well. Its been a few weeks and personally, im torn if I made the best decision on that one. As an investment standpoint, ill still make money if I ever need to sell, but thats not why I collect. After a lot of thought, I will still cut a signed book from Barnes and Noble, just released, purchased for $20. However, aything with value, anything thats rare, if I don't intend to leave it in the book, I will not make the purchase at all. Ill leave it for someone else who will appreciate the item as a whole

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Permalink Reply by JK on April 21, 2022 at 1:41pm

I understand the frustration but not the underlying expectations.

For the record, I am confident that the autograph in question is real.  However, the authentication company was paid to give their opinion. 

I don't buy that they said it was fake. I am sure they simply said they couldn't/wouldn't authenticate it. The lawyers wbo are planning to contact them have no case.

An autograph has to stand on it's own.  How many times do we tell people to ignore the fancy backstory and judge the signature on it's own merits?

An item can be authentic but not authenticatable if there are issues with it, such as it being deviant enough from accepted examples.

Also, it is a little unreasonable to insist that the authenticators accept the autograph as authentic based solely on its source (a signed edition) when the autograph has been removed from the book.

If people don't like or respect the opinion of a particular authentication company they should go elsewhere for those services.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on April 21, 2022 at 2:39pm

How about “Unable to render an opinion”? It costs the company $50 and they don’t have to cast doubt over the  entire edition. This particular signature didn’t pass their criteria for authenticity, but I’m sure other similar examples from the edition would. If so, you have to wonder if you might possibly be wrong in this case and neither pass nor fail it.

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Permalink Reply by Jason H on April 21, 2022 at 2:52pm

it would not look good for one of the best authentication companies to have an option of "unable to authenticate" that would open up a giant can of worms.. have they ever done this before? they need to make a decision for the money that was paid.. and JK is 100% correct. This is just an opinion

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on April 21, 2022 at 2:54pm

They have that option. They would have to refund the authentication fee or issue a credit.

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Permalink Reply by Jason H on April 21, 2022 at 3:00pm

I had to look this up.. do you mean for quick opinions? I can understand for a quick opinion,  but for a send in, an item they have in their hands? Has one of those ever been deemed unable to authenticate? If so,, they would have to refund 100% and I would fight for shipping costs as well because what are you paying them for?

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