Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 29, 2018 at 8:23pm

Posterguy,

I removed your comment in this discussion because it's not related to this discussion.

Comment by Evan on February 15, 2018 at 1:55pm

You're right, technically forensics is applicable only to crimes and their investigations.  He's just relying on people's lack of technical english to trick them. A Forensic Document Examiner IS a thing though, they are licensed and even have a board to maintain standards. They look at evidence for possible alterations, chain of possession, damage to the document, forgery, origin, authenticity, or other questions that come up when a document is challenged in court.  What they likely don't do, is determine if Mickey Mantle really signed that ball or not (especially if its not at the heart of a lawsuit). 

I don't understand why anyone would bother faking an MM, no less faking a cert of it. The guy was money hungry, lived a long time, and signed anything that walked by him. There are literally tens of thousands of his authentic signatures out there, why bother faking one? 

All that being said, let me play devils advocate here for a second. Based on that picture you posted, he did do some pretty detailed breakdown of the signature. It seems like a genuine attempt to determine or to match up the signature with other comps. His conclusion is wrong. But "experts" are wrong all the time, that doesn't mean they didn't genuinely believe their conclusion to be true. I'm not sticking up for this guy, I'm just saying I can see going into this field, thinking I'm pretty good at spotting a fake, doing a detailed breakdown analysis, and still coming to the wrong conclusion. 

Comment by Jason Charnick on February 15, 2018 at 2:08pm

Why bother faking a MM autograph? Huh? The answer is obvious: any 2 bit forger can turn a $1 ball or an ever cheaper inkjet printed photo/poster, and turn it into a quick $100 or so bucks, which little to no consequence for their criminal action. I can't believe that question even needs to be asked.

And to your other point, the form pictured above is a total canard... and it got you hook, line and sinker. If the conclusion is erroneous, and if FDE's don't get any specific training in actually authenticating autographs, then the form is there only to give you all those warm feelings inside, to lull you into a sense of comfort that an "expert" is doing all they can to treat your item with respect. But when there is ZERO, NONE, NADA forms out there with an accurate conclusion, that's when you know it's there for no other reason than to fool you.

Let's be honest here, these guys know EXACTLY what they are doing, it's a sophisticated scam in that they know it can't be *proven* that they don't believe own BS, and they continue to rubber stamp items that Chris has *actually proven* CAN'T be authentic.

It's a joke, and you know it. And if you don't, posts like this are part of the problem. Sorry to be harsh, but the mountain of evidence provided on this very site alone shows that we're WAY past the devil's advocate stage of the game.

Comment by Evan on February 15, 2018 at 2:12pm

1) I guess to me 100 bucks is just so petty and irrelevant I can't ever imagine doing something illegal or grossly unethical to obtain it - I guess that is all relative!

2) I'm not saying I believe this guy for a second. I didn't buy any of his crap and have no idea who he even is. In fact, I've never bought any autograph and the few times I've even considered it, I post it here for approval first (which none have ever been blessed with). So I haven't been conned at all. I was just playing devils advocate, as I said. I'm sure its a con and when con is all you know, and you can pull this time and time again, I guess it all adds up. Seems like a miserable way to live your life (spending all this time just faking everything) so I'd love to believe that they believe. But, as you said, probably not. Probably just regular ol' con artists. 

Comment by Jason Charnick on February 15, 2018 at 2:59pm

Hi Evan, again sorry if I was harsh, I'm just so fed up with these clowns... 100 bucks might be small potatoes to us, but if it was a constant churn of these items, then it becomes big bucks... a bucket of balls that wholesale for $100 from China, and a $1 Bic pen, can turn into TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars on an annual basis, with eBay complicit, and no repercussions... not small potatoes anymore, that's for sure.

And I'm glad to hear that you haven't been conned, but it's when folks play devil's advocate that these hucksters feel empowered knowing they've muddied the waters enough to get away with this ish for so long. No, no more from me. I'm calling a spade a spade when I see it, and not giving the benefit of the doubt. Not when Stevie Wonder can see through their crap!

Comment by Evan on February 15, 2018 at 3:22pm

:) understood! 

Comment by CJCollector on February 15, 2018 at 4:41pm

Evan wrote "I don't understand why anyone would bother faking an MM, no less faking a cert of it. "

Here's your answer below.  The majority by far are forgeries.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Photos/27265/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mic...

Comment by Steve Zarelli on February 15, 2018 at 4:45pm

My God... scrolling through the first 100 recent "Mantles" sold... I could count the real ones on both hands. 90%+ fakes.

Sickening!

Comment by CJCollector on February 15, 2018 at 4:47pm

Rocchi, Goraczyk and the GFA team "Know exactly what they are doing."

Comment by CJCollector on February 15, 2018 at 4:49pm

Disgusting, isn't it, Steve!!!

The people who are buying that crap are either delusional or scammers who flip them elsewhere.

I also have to believe that the delusional who are buying that crap, really believe they are purchasing an investment.

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