Comment by Dilip on May 27, 2012 at 3:32pm

Why do people still Bid on these Pieces.... http://www.icollector.com/CY-YOUNG-AND-HONUS-WAGNER-SIGNED-HILLERIC...  This was won for $750 but i must say if its real its a real steal at this Price!!

Comment by Dilip on May 27, 2012 at 3:35pm

Is there anyway that we can speak to Winners and see if these are sent and see if these are real? Just  putting this out there...

Comment by James Wymer on May 27, 2012 at 3:43pm

No the winner information is not made available for good reason. They do have a right to privacy. I as an auctioneer would only give out bidder info only if forced by the supreme court.

Comment by Dilip on May 27, 2012 at 4:40pm

James, Thanks for clearing that up. I know there is no way for them to release info but I hope whoever bought them will come forward. Let us all know what they got in return for their money. Fakes or the real deal...Thanks for the input!

Comment by Dilip on May 27, 2012 at 4:42pm

I mean it would be nice to figure it out. 

Comment by Dilip on May 27, 2012 at 4:44pm

By the way... whoever said they were pulling the "Cola Ad Ruth"... must of lied... Its still on the list.

Comment by James Wymer on May 27, 2012 at 7:23pm

Dilip there is no chance that it is real in my opinion. The only thing I saw that seemed close was the Ruth ball.

Comment by mike d. on May 29, 2012 at 10:24am

I complained to LIVEAUCTIONEERS regarding Pioneer Auctions and received this reply:

Hello,
Please be advised that all auction houses operating on LiveAuctioneers are registered businesses that abide by local, state, and country laws as well as our terms and conditions. Their terms and conditions for bidders have been vetted and are not in violation of our terms for sellers.
Please be advised that it is the responsibility of the bidder to inspect all items to his/her satisfaction before placing legally binding bids on lots for sale on LiveAuctioneers. That said, if you are able to forward to us written documentation confirming your suspicion that an item listed on our site was not as described, we can forward the information to the auction house and start an investigation.
Regards, LiveAuctioneers Staff
--------------- Original Message --------------- From:  [Mikede1087@aol.com] Sent: 5/26/2012 6:54 PM To: info@liveauctioneers.com Subject: Pioneer Auctions
why are you allowing them to use your site to conduct auctions? they are  selling forgeries and have illegal terms and conditions

I just wrote them back:

California CIVIL CODE SECTION 1739.7

1739.7.  (a) As used in this section:    (1) "Autographed" means bearing the actual signature of a personality signed by that individual's own hand.    (2) "Collectible" means an autographed sports item, including, but not limited to, a photograph, book, ticket, plaque, sports program, trading card, item of sports equipment or clothing, or other sports memorabilia sold or offered for sale in or from this state by a dealer to a consumer for five dollars ($5) or more.    (3) "Consumer" means any natural person who purchases a collectible from a dealer for personal, family, or household purposes. "Consumer" also includes a prospective purchaser meeting these criteria.    (4) "Dealer" means a person who is in the business of selling or offering for sale collectibles in or from this state, exclusively or nonexclusively, or a person who by his or her occupation holds himself or herself out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to collectibles, or to whom that knowledge or skill may be attributed by his or her employment of an agent or other intermediary that by his or her occupation holds himself or herself out as having that knowledge or skill. "Dealer" includes an auctioneer who sells collectibles at a public auction, and also includes persons who are consignors or representatives or agents of auctioneers. "Dealer" includes a person engaged in a mail order, telephone order, or cable television business for the sale of collectibles.    (5) "Description" means any of the following:    (A) Any representation in writing, including, but not limited to, a representation in an advertisement, brochure, catalog, flyer, invoice, sign, or other commercial or promotional material.    (B) Any oral representation.    (C) Any representation included in a radio or television broadcast to the public in or from this state.    (6) "Limited edition" means any collectible that meets all of the following requirements:    (A) A company has produced a specific quantity of a collectible and placed it on the open market.    (B) The producer of the collectible has posted a notice, at its primary place of business, that it will provide any consumer, upon request, with a copy of a notice that states the exact number of a collectible produced in that series of limited editions.    (C) The producer makes available, upon request of a consumer, evidence that the electronic encoding, films, molds, or plates used to create the collectible have been destroyed after the specified number of collectibles have been produced.    (D) The sequence number of the collectible and the number of the total quantity produced in the limited edition are printed on the collectible.    (7) "Mint condition" means any collectible sold on the open market or through a private transaction that meets all of the following requirements:    (A) The item has never been circulated, used, or worn.    (B) The item exhibits little or no sign of aging or degradation caused by oxidation or exposure to sunlight as a result of its display.    (C) The item is otherwise free from creases, blemishes, or marks.    (8) "Promoter" means a person who arranges, holds, organizes, or presents a trade show featuring collectibles, autograph signings, or both.    (9) "Person" means any natural person, partnership, corporation, limited liability company, company, trust, association, or other entity, however organized.    (b) Whenever a dealer, in selling or offering to sell to a consumer a collectible in or from this state, provides a description of that collectible as being autographed, the dealer shall furnish a certificate of authenticity to the consumer at the time of sale. The certificate of authenticity shall be in writing, shall be signed by the dealer or his or her authorized agent, and shall specify the date of sale. The certificate of authenticity shall be in at least 10-point boldface type and shall contain the dealer's true legal name and street address. The dealer shall retain a copy of the certificate of authenticity for not less than seven years. Each certificate of authenticity shall do all of the following:    (1) Describe the collectible and specify the name of the sports personality who autographed it.    (2) Either specify the purchase price and date of sale or be accompanied by a separate invoice setting forth that information.    (3) Contain an express warranty, which shall be conclusively presumed to be part of the bargain, of the authenticity of the collectible. This warranty shall not be negated or limited by reason of the lack of words such as "warranty" or "guarantee" or because the dealer does not have a specific intent or authorization to make the warranty or because any statement relevant to the collectible is or purports to be, or is capable of being, merely the dealer's opinion.    (4) Specify whether the collectible is offered as one of a limited edition and, if so, specify (A) how the collectible and edition are numbered and (B) the size of the edition and the size of any prior or anticipated future edition, if known. If the size of the edition and the size of any prior or anticipated future edition is not known, the certificate shall contain an explicit statement to that effect.    (5) Indicate whether the dealer is surety bonded or is otherwise insured to protect the consumer against errors and omissions of the dealer and, if bonded or insured, provide proof thereof.    (6) Indicate the last four digits of the dealer's resale certificate number from the State Board of Equalization.    (7) Indicate whether the item was autographed in the presence of the dealer and specify the date and location of, and the name of a witness to, the autograph signing.    (8) Indicate whether the item was obtained or purchased from a third party. If so, indicate the name and address of this third party.    (9) Include an identifying serial number that corresponds to an identifying number printed on the collectible item, if any. The serial number shall also be printed on the sales receipt. If the sales receipt is printed electronically, the dealer may manually write the serial number on the receipt.    (c) No dealer shall represent an item as a collectible if it was not autographed by the sports personality in his or her own hand.    (d) No dealer shall display or offer for sale a collectible in this state unless, at the location where the collectible is offered for sale and in close proximity to the collectible merchandise, there is a conspicuous sign that reads as follows: "SALE OF AUTOGRAPHED SPORTS MEMORABILIA: AS REQUIRED BY LAW, A DEALER WHO SELLS TO A CONSUMER ANY SPORTS MEMORABILIA DESCRIBED AS BEING AUTOGRAPHED MUST PROVIDE A WRITTEN CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY AT THE TIME OF SALE. THIS DEALER MAY BE SURETY BONDED OR OTHERWISE INSURED TO ENSURE THE AUTHENTICITY OF ANY COLLECTIBLE SOLD BY THIS DEALER."     (e) Any dealer engaged in a mail-order or telephone-order business for the sale of collectibles in or from this state:    (1) Shall include the disclosure specified in subdivision (d), in type of conspicuous size, in any written advertisement relating to a collectible.    (2) Shall include in each television advertisement relating to a collectible the following written on-screen message, which shall be prominently displayed, easily readable, and clearly visible for no less than five seconds, and which shall be repeated for five seconds once during each four-minute segment of the advertisement following the initial four minutes: "A written certificate of authenticity is provided with each autographed collectible, as required by law. This dealer may be surety bonded or otherwise insured to ensure the authenticity of any collectible sold by this dealer."     (3) Shall include as part of the oral message of each radio advertisement for a collectible the disclosure specified in subdivision (d).    (f) No dealer shall display or offer for sale a collectible in this state at any trade show or similar event primarily featuring sales of collectibles or other sports memorabilia that offers onsite admission ticket sales unless, at each onsite location where admission tickets are sold, there is prominently displayed a specimen example of a certificate of authenticity.    (g) Any consumer injured by the failure of a dealer to provide a certificate of authenticity containing the information required by this section, or by a dealer's furnishing of a certificate of authenticity that is false, shall be entitled to recover, in addition to actual damages, a civil penalty in an amount equal to 10 times actual damages, plus court costs, reasonable attorney's fees, interest, and expert witness fees, if applicable, incurred by the consumer in the action. The court, in its discretion, may award additional damages based on the egregiousness of the dealer's conduct. The remedy specified in this section is in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other remedy that may be provided by law.    (h) No person shall represent himself or herself as a dealer in this state unless he or she possesses a valid resale certificate number from the State Board of Equalization.    (i) A dealer may be surety bonded or otherwise insured for purposes of indemnification against errors and omissions arising from the authentication, sale, or resale of collectibles.    (j) Whenever a promoter arranges or organizes a trade show featuring collectibles and autograph signings, the promoter shall notify, in writing, any dealer who has agreed to purchase or rent space in this trade show what the promoter will do if any laws of this state are violated, including the fact that law enforcement officials will be contacted when those laws are violated. This notice shall be delivered to the dealer, at his or her registered place of business, at the time the agreement to purchase space in the trade show is made. The following language shall be included in each notice:     "As a vendor at this collectibles trade show, you are a professional representative of this hobby. As a result, you will be required to follow the laws of this state, including laws regarding the sale and display of collectibles, as defined in Section 1739.7 of the Civil Code, forged and counterfeit collectibles and autographs, and mint and limited edition collectibles. If you do not obey the laws, you may be evicted from this trade show, be reported to law enforcement, and be held liable for a civil penalty of 10 times the amount of damages."  very few of the auctions on LIVEAUCTIONEERS abide by this section of the California Civil Code in that they don't issue COA's as required - either in State or into the State auctions.

Pioneer is one of many

Pioneer Auctions' TERMS and CONDITIONS also fail the California test in that you can't dispute a charge if the item has a bad signature - forged

Mike Dempsey

 

Comment by Dilip on May 31, 2012 at 3:52pm

Updated Pioneer Auctions in Portland (ia) Oregon.
Looks like we got Live Auctiooneers, proxibid and even I collector to remove the listings for Pioneer Auction Gallery in Oregon. Now the AG in that state needs to remove them from allowing to sell any FAKE autos again. They had an Auction for June 10th but it seems its disappeared.

Comment by mike d. on May 31, 2012 at 4:26pm

I have been debating back and forth with LIVEAUCTIONEERS regarding the selling of bad autographs by Pioneer and others on their site. the latest was received this morning at 7:55:

Again, if there was written documentation from a reliable source that the items
were definitely not as described we would be happy to follow up with the auction
house on your behalf.  If a COA is not mentioned on the item page it does not
necessarily mean that one is not available.  It is the responsibility of the
buyer to research all items to his or her satisfaction prior to bidding, which
would include contacting the auction house to inquire about any authentication
available on an item.

Regards
LiveAuctioneers
Staff

--------------- Original Message ---------------
From: 
[Mikede1087@aol.com]
Sent: 5/30/2012 10:48 AM
To:
info@liveauctioneers.com
Subject: Re: Pioneer Auctions    [
ref:_00D50781G._50050Gaj6c:ref ]

they are using the internet to bring
their product to California to  sell

the last auction had eight Babe Ruth
items plus a number of high end 
autographs - seven had no COAs, one had
Drew Max AAU. there was no mention of 
any COAs on request



In
a message dated 5/30/2012 7:30:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 

info@liveauctioneers.com writes:

Hello,

Actually, in this case
you would be using the  internet to purchase the
items from their location
in Oregon, not that they  were selling items in
California.  The use of the
word "in" would define  a company that was based in
another state that
carried product into the state  to sell.  That said
though, as I mentioned
this auction house does offer  a COA for most lots
available on
request.

If you had written  documentation from a reliable source that
supported
your claim that items were  not as described we would be happy to
forward it to
the auction house for 
review.

Regards
LiveAuctioneers Staff

---------------  Original
Message ---------------
From:  [Mikede1087@aol.com]
Sent:  5/29/2012 9:05
PM
To: info@liveauctioneers.com
Subject: Re: Pioneer  Auctions    [
ref:_00D50781G._50050Gaj6c:ref ]

i suggest you  reread section 1739.7.
(a) (4)

(4) "Dealer" means a person who is in  the business of selling 
or

offering for sale collectibles in or  from this state, exclusively 
or

nonexclusively,

Pioneer as  well as other auctioneers are using
LIVEAUCTIONEERS to sell 
goods  INTO the State of California without a COA
as required and Pioneers
Terms 
and Conditions did not allowing
chargebacks (disputes) on credit  cards

i believe you have a legal
obligation to obey the  law

--------------

not sure what else has happened

 

Comment

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