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Authenticity is Everything
Did Jim Morrison ever sign things, ie debut LP, for fans using only his initials, “JM” ?
Hi, long time record seller here and new to this forum. I spent a couple hours reading the Morrison threads here and found the discussions very interesting. You all do not hesitate to call them as you see them. Well, this is the 2nd time this year I have come across an unexpected signature on an LP. The first was a Janet Jackson which I reluctantly concluded was not authentic because I could not find a close example from the late 80’s.
About 4 hours ago I was working on 3 copies of the debut Doors LP. I was initially bummed when I saw initials on one cover, assuming it was the original owner’s back in 1967/68. Then noticed it was “JM” written on his cheek. Initially, I thought the person was just identifying Jim Morrison on the cover. But, who knows? So I did about an hour looks for anything he just initialed. I found a couple examples, but they were from later in his career. The “J” resembles the J in his earliest signatures. The “M” looks almost identical to some examples from 67 and 68.
Anyhow, if the first owner had the initials, JM, it seems very coincidental that he wrote them so much like Jim did. Two other things. If it’s an attempted forgery, why use only initials? And 2nd, why ruin the value of a nice stereo first pressing jacket? In my mind this was done before he died and it’s value increased. So, that all seems to almost rule out it being an attempted forgery.
That brings me back to asking the questions:
Does anyone think this was initialed by Jim Morrison?
Or is it just a coincidence that the original owner wrote his J’s and M’s like Jim Morrison did back in the mid-60’s
All I know for certain is that from the labels and dead wax stamping and engraving this is not a counterfeit vinyl LP record. And I believe it’s extremely unlikely the jacket is a fake.
What do you think?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by just some dude on
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I dont think its real. I dont think Jim typically did that, nor do I think that is his hand. As to why just initials, that would be much easier to do than the whole shebang!
Just my two cents. Wait and see what Ballroom has to say is my best advice.
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Permalink Reply by JackGotLucky on
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This is clearly not authentic in my opinion as neither letter resembles the way Jim wrote his J's or his M's in his signature and/or his writings.
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I was brain-farting on your username, Jack, thanks for weighing in. You and Ballroom are rock solid on the Lizard King!
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Here are 2 examples of the very few times Jim has signed his initials.
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on
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I agree that it doesn't appear to be his writing. It looks like someone chose to label the image with Jim's initials.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Spriggs on
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Thanks for the replies.
Jack, I read your expert thread on Morrison signatures. You have obviously studied his wring very carefully and I greatly respect your opinion on this. So, let me extend the discussion a bit. I noticed the very first signature you displayed from 1961 has the overlapping ends of the “J” like my record has. You mentioned how he rarely signed “Jim” Morrison through his Doors days. He instead went with JMorrison, with the JM tight together, unlike mine is. And the J was almost always wide open at the top.
It caught my eye that “after” he started using the JMorrison, he often still closed his J when signing “Jim” Morrison. I think I saw examples of that up until 1970.Like you stated he did not use Jim often, but it does show up when he signs a legal document.
Another this I have noticed while looking at dozens of examples is the final downward vertical of him M’s changed in 67/68 from slightly concave “(“ to slightly rounded out “)”. When you look at the early signatures with the concave M’s, you will see some M’s that look almost identical to mine. Also mine has the higher J ahead of the M.
I think you pointed out the dotting of the “i” in Jim. That is interesting, because there is a period after the M on my LP cover.
One more thing about this possibly being a forgery. If it was a forgery, I would think the two letters would be connected like he often connected the J and M. On my cover the two letters are separated. Almost as if he wroteJim and erased the “i”.
Anyhow, I just can’t see this as a forgery. While I agree it’s most probably not initialed by Jim Morrison, I think it was initialed by someone whose initials are JM. Ie John Montgomery. Or else someone defaced his picture with Morrison’s initials. But, I can not see why they would do that. I have sold a couple million used LPs, tapes, and CDs. Many from the 60’s had the ownersk name written somewhere on the covers. But, they did it at the top, bottom, backside, or inside the record pockets. Not on the artists faces. But, the artists themselves often sign on their faces. I think every first Doors LP I have seen signed by Jim has his forged or authentic signature on his face. Many in about the same position these initials are on this record cover.
I remember meeting The Runaways back in the 70’s. One of them did not like their picture on the LP and marked it out with pen, then signed it on the other side. The other girls signed on there photos. I think I gave that one away 30 some years ago because it was such a stupid thing to do, IMO. I kept one or two of the other LPs I had them sign.
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There aren't any known copies of the debut album that have been signed by Jim. There's only one copy each of Morrison Hotel and Waiting For the Sun, both of which are signed "JMorrison."
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Thank-you! I had no idea Jim’s autographed LPs are almost non-existent.
After doing some reading on this forum, I also learned that authentications of autographs is far from reliable. And apparently it’s not just due to the ability of forgers. I get the feeling even legit autographs often get denied authentication approval.
Over my many years owning a large indi record store, I acquired hundreds of autographs. Almost all in person and personalized. I have never sold one for more than the record itself was worth. And I have given the vast majority away to deserving customers. That would include the ones I considered most valuable.
That brings me to these two recent finds. Since these (Janet and Jim) are not authentic, it’s difficult to do anything with them. I can not sell or give them away w/o getting someone excited. Even if I say I believe they are fake. So these will go into boxes with other non-verified LPs, tapes, and CDs I have acquired over the past 40 years, as I can not bring myself to throw them away. So, some day after I die, these will be re-discovered in my stuff. And someone will get all excited, then disappointed. Sad.
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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on
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Maybe I may be mistaken but wouldn't this album still have a decent collectible value? Obviously, I don't know a thing about collecting old vinyl.
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Yes and no. With the initials on the cover the value is about halved. I was working on three copies when I noticed the initials. One is an Allentown/Witmark 1st stereo pressing. It looks G+ and plays VG>VG+. I am going to put that back in this cover to save. Without the initials it would bring me $60-$75 with the weak vinyl. The initials would pull the value down even more. Say, $30-$40 at most.
The vinyl in the picture is a 1967 Terre Haute stereo 2nd pressing in VG+ condition. It is in a better than VG+ condition 1st printing jacket and has no writing on the cover + the original Elektra inner sleeve. On line I would list it at $48; however, this is going into my little store for $28. Which is about what I would net on line after commissions and shipping.
The third copy is a 1971 pressing with the Butterfly label and the 2nd jacket with the gold record seal on the cover. It is in excellent condition. Some would call it VG++ or NM-. That one will sell at $40 in my store to someone probably buying it as a Christmas gift.
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Here's another example of Jim signing his initials for a fan:
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