Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by just some dude on September 14, 2019 at 9:24am

No disrespect meant to you or Wascher.

My post is only meant to encourage people to become the opinion they come here looking for. 

I spent the better part of 18 months studying MJs signature before I even considered myself an autograph collector, lol

We all have eyeballs. There is no superpower involved. All humans make mistakes and nobody is right 100% of the time. 

Be the expert opinion you seek. It is more than doable if you desire it.

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Permalink Reply by just some dude on September 14, 2019 at 9:39am

There are at least 4 authentic sigs that I know of on Ebay right now accepting offers under $850

There is a cut and slabbed one certed by PSA bidding around $620 - reserve not met - as we speak (though rather unattractive, IMHO)

I would think $650-700 is a fair price for (arguably) the biggest superstar the world has ever (or will) seen.

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Permalink Reply by just some dude on September 14, 2019 at 9:59am

And of ALL the ones being sold on Ebay right this very minute, Id almost bet the farm that there are less than 30 authentic ones.

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Permalink Reply by James on September 14, 2019 at 9:27pm

Far less than 30 I would say.

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Permalink Reply by James on September 14, 2019 at 9:33pm

The one you are talking about that was at $620, reserve not met...the person selling that actually paid $1059 for that cut within the last few months.  I remember it selling for that amount just a few months back, and I’m pretty sure no one returned it.  So I highly doubt the seller would take $650-$700 for it even though that may be a fair price for a cut...I don’t know, but he would be looking at a sizable loss if he did.

Well, the reserve wasn’t met.  He’s now got it listed as a BIN for $950.  So maybe it was a return.  It wouldn’t make sense for him to pay $1059 for it and then a few months later be willing to sell it for $950, plus lose another $95 in ebay fees.  So maybe when it sold for $1059, the buyer never paid.

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Permalink Reply by just some dude on September 15, 2019 at 8:10am

To my point, the base asking price for authentic MJ is in the $700-800 range.

That item at $620 had close to 23 bids last time I looked , reserve not met, regardless of how much it was originally purchased for. I personally dont pay all that much attention to the ones I dont find attractive, bc I wouldnt buy it for $320!

Of the ones accepting offers - Im certain a deal could be struck for closer to $700. My 2 cents.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on September 14, 2019 at 8:17pm

Things always come to light as more and more of a particular forgery come along.  How I started looking at these as bad, and at a few other sources was that I was looking at the downstroke i, in Michael, which is rarely if ever done.  He 99.9% of the time does an upstroke into his i.  It was just one of those things I caught one day while going over every single letter - cuz it didn't feel right but people were passing them so I looked harder at what was off ... and that downstroke i was it. 

A few yrs later Jason Makris up in Canada made very similar mistakes with downstroke i's or the i's were missing all together.  That immed was a red flag to me.  But again people were passing his stuff.... so I had to prove what was going on with that mess, and finally did.  It took awhile though.

Any time a forger gets one past a good authenticator, you can best be sure they think SCORE!!!!! and then the floodgates open.  And what makes it even harder is the authenticators never give the info to us on who submitted the items.  So it is so much harder to figure out who is forging the items.. :(

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Permalink Reply by Harald Greisen on September 14, 2019 at 7:42am

Apologies on the gender mistake, Wascher. I'm fairly new here although your reputation was quickly established for me. I knew you would take me down a peg or two. I have a lot to learn about MJ signatures. I'm just starting my study on his writing. This forger in this case is easily doing these with authority as they look bold and quickly done, while holding true to many MJ traits. Scary for inexperienced MJ collectors such as myself.

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Permalink Reply by Prashant Kaushik on September 14, 2019 at 9:46pm

Wascher is amazing with MJ.  A lot of respect to her and her knowledge.  She is the best.

Cordially, I will disagree and feel the original signed photo is authentic.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel S. on September 15, 2019 at 8:57am

I acquired this from Julians after their MJ issues but before my involvement here.  I requested pre-auction authentication from PSA as part of my due diligence and when the signature was determined to be likely authentic, I decided to pursue.  I also felt that Juliens would be more careful this time with MJ.  Perhaps, a big leap of faith there.  

My point is that studying these signatures as “dude” suggests would have provided little help unless I studied to the extent that I became an authority.  These forgers are huge threat to the hobby and I respect your efforts to call out the perpetrators.

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Permalink Reply by just some dude on September 15, 2019 at 9:10am

Well, I am sorry you learned the hard way. Unfortunately, you cannot blindly put your faith into anybody. Even the big boys.

Sad but true.

This hobby requires an investment of time and money - theres too many sharks in these waters, so you have to be properly armed with the skills and knowledge to best protect yourself. Know when to take a closer look and know when to run.

And the only way to gain that knowledge is to study. Otherwise youre guessing and relying on the opinions of others.

Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by James on September 14, 2019 at 9:54pm

There’s a photo of Oprah and MJ with Oprah Lea on Michael’s shoulder, and it’s signed by Oprah.  It actually makes me sick given the way she turned on him in death by promoting the lies of Robson and Safechuck without providing equal time to the Jackson family for a rebuttal.  

I’m done with Oprah that’s for sure.  Michael will live on forever as the King of Pop while Oprah will be long forgotten with the passage of time.  Future generations will say, “Oprah Winfrey?  I think she had a talk show or something.”  “Actually, I think she was an assistant for Rikki Lake.”

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