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How to handle a dispute? Please let me know your thoughts!
Hi everyone!
I would really appreciate your help regarding a transaction I’ve made with a trusted dealer (with a long experience of buying & selling) in a FB group where we can’t agree on a fair solution for both parties. I think it is most fair to not name either the dealer or the FB group and just focus on the facts.
Ok, here is the full (long) story: I sold two autographs for $520 to him and he got to choose if he wanted to pay a higher sum with Goods&Service or a lesser sum with Friends&Family, he chose to pay F&F. I then asked him if he wanted the package marked with a low value to avoid custom fees and he said yes to this. (See photo 1&2)
In my opinion both these choices were made to save the buyer money but both choises comes with a higher risk involved, which the buyer for sure knew since he has a long experience in the autograph community. I have myself bought lots of items where the sellers have marked the package low to save me from custom fees, always with the understanding that it means that it will not be insured and that I, as the buyer, will take the hit if something happens. I have always thought that was kind of a mutual understanding among collectors when marking an item with a low value.
The package was then shipped with trackingnumber and is trackable from me in Sweden to the buyer in the US. There is no way for me to put a $15 value on an item and then insure it for $520, since both shipping and insurance are bought from the same person at the postal office.
Unfortunally this time the package got lost, the US postal service has done an investigation and can’t find it.
The result of the buyers two choises above is that neither paypal (can’t use its buyer and seller protection since the payment was done with Friends&Family) or the swedish postal service (since it was marked with a low value) will cover for the lost package, meaning that if refunded I will take the full hit.
In my opinion I asked the buyer what he wanted, he got to decide what would be best for him and then I did as we agreed on. And now he still says this is all on me and that I should refund him all the money. I have offered him a 50% refund to be fair, although I tecnically don’t have to since he chose to pay with Friends&Family. And to be honest, the way he’s behaving I’m thinking of just block him and give him nothing back!!
When trying to explain this to the buyer he said that I was totally wrong and that he would make a thread on FB where he would ask the members for their opinion and according to him these replies would then determine how we settle this. But for some reason (!!!) he didn’t mention anything about him chosing Friends&Family and a low value on the package, that I shipped with trackingnumber and that I despite this still have offered him a 50% refund. If I didn’t know better it’s almost as if he did that on purpose to get the answers he wanted… He then uses the answers from the (misled) members to push me to refund him. And when contacting me with the results he for some reason only attach screenprints from the members that agrees with him, not everyone who doesn’t…
And now it has gone so far that he makes ”hidden threats” against me, saying that he will make a public post if I doesn’t fully refund him.
To get advices I’ve asked several of my long time collector friends how to handle this and one would refund even though he thinks the blaim isn’t on me, two would try to find a solution that both are happy with and the last three said that I shouldn’t refund anything, that the buyer fully knew what he was doing.
I have sold hundreds of autographs over the years and there have never been any problems until this autumn were two packages got lost at the same time. But the other had been marked with a correct value so after a long discussion with the swedish postal service (they never makes it easy) they finally covered the lost package and I could refund the seller and that situation got resolved. But the above is a very unfortunate situation for me. Here’s a link to some feedback I recieved at Autograph Magazine Live when selling here: https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/member-gogo?xg_source=activity
I would greatly appreciate your thoughts about this situation. Thank you for helping and take care!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by marc e on
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this is very easy
first friends and family isnt a problem for me as insist everuthing be fully insured.
i give discounts on friends on family but wont ship internation unless its fully tracked and insured for that reason
on ebay i only use globale shipping. yes ive lost bussinees but i sleep better at nite and it stops the scammers
i would rather not sell the itiem if the person is to cheap to protect the investment
my 2 cents
you owe him nothing
let him expose you
if fact dont give him anything and donate the money to charity just to pisss him off
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Permalink Reply by Cogo on
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Hehe, thank you marc e!
I like a ”skip the bullcrap and go strait to the point” kind of answer like this. Much appreciated!
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i try im a straight shooter and just honest .
its his fualt dont worry about it eventualy it will how up hopefully he might never tell you.
you did just as ge asked so its not your problem
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i had a package take a few months in the united states alone so u never know
ever since the new postal guy 2 years ago the post office has reallu gone to sh t.
ive had ebay do refunds and then the package shows up 2 months later then its almost impossible to get the buyer to repay you.lol
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Permalink Reply by Eddy on
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I was just thinking about this discussion of F&F used to sell and purchase autographs . If an issue arises, how does a seller have any recourse if there is no paper (or electronic) trail that an item was indeed purchased and that title to the item has been passed? We can huff an puff until blue in the face that something was sold and not received, but we have no proof there even was a sale (such as a detailed PayPal invoice would show) .
To the rest of the world (and especially PayPal), my "friend" may have just sent me a few hundred dollars out of the kindness of their heart because I'm down on my luck. Legally (but not morally), it would seem the so-called seller would be within their rights to not even ship an item since there was no apparent transaction to be seen. How does it also work for any kind of income reporting to tax agencies?
I'm not trying to keep beating a dead horse. I really would like to know how this works for sellers and buyers whom we don't know personally in the event of any issues and also for accounting purposes.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Thankfully my repeat customers are real friends I know for 10-20 years - I help with their books, research, I provide illustrations etc. I know them, their kids names, we sometimes exchange cards etc. And I know they appreciate me finding exactly what they want and at a good price. Sometimes it might take a year...but I try to fill every request sooner or later. I deal much more with sellers I don't know than buyers.
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And if you don't know the seller...they don't know you as buyer...would you do F&F involving a purchase?
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It's never even come up honestly. To quote Sophia from The Color Purple - "Heck No!"
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As a buyer there is a much greater risk involved when using F&F, for sure. There is no paypal receipt as proof of the transaction, just one ”friend” sending money to another ”friend”. And that is why when a buyer uses F&F to get a lower price, it is him/her who takes the risk according to me and many others in this thread…
Because if using G&S both the buyer and you as a seller (as long as you can show proof of shipping) can aply to paypal for a refund using their buyer and seller protection program. But it will cost the buyer a bit more and that is why some wants to use the F&F option, like my buyer wanted when given both options.
As a seller, I will not do that again and as said earlier, lesson learned!
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dont change what u did just protect your self as i said insure everything and figure it to the cost thats why i do all in one pricing .
look at how i listed stuff for sale in the sell section ,no nickel and dimming all including in one price its very simple for the buyer even that way and still i have buyers try to barging with me but i belive its the easist way to sell something and the fairest
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i get asked all the time for discounts and they will send by f and friends if i work with them
i have no problem especialy on bulk deals but nothing leaves my place unless its fully insured so it doesnt matter to me.
im amazed that its the people buying 50 or 100$ itiems are usually the cheapest and want to knickel and dime me to save a few dollars.
if you protect your self as a seller it doesnt matter how you do the deal honestly im more worried about the chargeback scams going on now than anything so f and friends is more of a protection as a seller than anything
my 3 cents
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