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Authenticity is Everything
Bob Dylan AUTOPEN Info To Help With Returns / Refunds - Simon & Schuster, Premiere, and Coles
***URGENT UPDATE
Previous update
Some users have uncovered potential autopen use within Bob Dylan's expensive art prints. Please check your prints if you own one and post a picture on this thread if you have any concerns.
here is a link to one of his art prints in question
https://www.castlefineart.com/art/bob-dylan/cactus
*UPDATE - Let this be a warning to ALL publishers and celebrities in the future. We are sick and tired of these autopen releases. Our community has had enough and absolutely will not stand for this practice to continue any longer!!!
I want to point out that Coles Books needs to be commended. They made sure to look out for their customers and refused to ship these out if they came from the same S&S stock, which they did. It was also an easy process to cancel orders beforehand if you wished. Coles. on behalf of everyone, I want to thank you for having integrity and watching out for all of us.
I can NOT say the same about Premiere Collectibles. They refused to honor cancelation requests until it was known these books were in fact autopenned. They advertise themselves claiming they are collectors themselves. This is not true. They are a retailer first and only care about your money. There have been other autopen incidents where they absolutely refused to accept blame, stating items were real when they were clearly deemed autopen by the community. Be careful with future purchases with Premiere Collectibles.
This email came directly from Jonathan Karp at Simon and Schuster. If anyone still wishes to send him a message, here is his email address as well.
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
We apologize for the mistake that was made and are offering a full refund of your purchase. Please keep your copy of The Philosophy of Modern Song at no cost. We hope you will enjoy reading it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Karp
Here are 51 articles and counting detailing our combined efforts on this forum
New York Post - Screenshot.jpg
New York Times - Screenshot.jpg
Los Angeles Times - Screenshot.jpg
Washington Post - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
Billboard pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
The Daily Beast - Screenshot.jpg
Ultimate Classic Rock - Screenshot.jpg
Poetic Justice - Screenshot.jpg
The Music Universe - Screenshot.jpg
I Heart Radio - Screenshot.jpg
Publishers Lunch - Subscription required
Spiegel - Translated Screenshot.jpg
Far Out Magazine - Screenshot.jpg
American Songwriter - Screenshot.jpg
American Top 40 - Screenshot.jpg
We Got This Covered - Screenshot.jpg
Healthcare Buisness - Screenshot.jpg
Sydney Morning Herald - Screenshot.jpg
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ORIGINAL POST
I am creating this thread as a comprehensive all in 1 link for returns, refunds, chargebacks and claims made regarding the "signed" edition of Bob Dylan - The Philosophy Of Modern Song. Please use this link to email Simon & Schuster, Coles, and Premiere Collectables as 100% proof these were signed using an autopen machine.
I would like to say right off the bat, Coles Books in the UK is handling this professionally and seem to care deeply about their customer base. They have stated that, once they are in hand, If they find evidence of them being autopenned, they will cancel all orders.. Kudos to Coles.. I wish all retailers would follow their lead. If you wish to cancel your order with them immediately instead of waiting, It seems to be an easy process.
This post will be continuously updated with new information over the next few days
Please refer to this article for the time being until more information is added
https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1290-cjbk/news/collectors-quest...
Here is the post I created a few weeks ago with info regarding the Indigo incident.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/indigo-bob-dylan-po...
So far, there have been a total of 17 confirmed different templates for the autopen machine used for Bob Dylans signature. I am in the process of creating video comparisons for all 17 sets. Please post full page photos of your item as they are delivered to aid in this process
Here are all 17 templates used by Bob Dylan - I am still looking for full page photos for numbers 8,13 and 15 thru 17 but its still best to post whatever you receive
Be aware when checking against your own copy, it has come to light that they are possibly using 1st and last names interchangeably. Bob in #2 matches perfectly with Bob in #13 while Dylan in both are different
14th variation confirmed
15th variation
16th variation - Seems to be almost an exact combination of #11 and #13 with a different vertical line in his "D"
17th variation
Video and photo comparisons created so far
Video of set 1 Dylan1.mp4 - Photo of set 1 Dylan1.JPG
Video of set 2 Dylan2.mp4 - Photo of set 2 Dylan2.JPG
Video of set 3 Dylan3.mp4 - Photo of set 3 Dylan3.JPG
Video of set 4 Dylan4.mp4 - Photo of set 4 Dylan4.JPG
Video of set 5 Dylan5.mp4 - Photo of set 5 Dylan5.JPG
Video of set 6 Dylan6.mp4 - Photo of set 6 Dylan6.JPG
Video of set 7 Dylan7.mp4 - Photo of set 7 Dylan7.JPG
Video of set 9 Dylan9.mp4 - Photo of set 9 Dylan9.JPG
Video of set 10 Dylan10.mp4 - Photo of set 10 Dylan10.JPG
Video of set 11 Dylan11.mp4 - Photo of set 11 Dylan11.JPG
Video of set 12 Dylan12.mp4 - Photo of set 12 Dylan12.JPG
Video of set 14 Dylan14.mp4 - Photo of set 14 Dylan14.JPG
Here are the COAs stating these books were in fact hand-signed
Suzanne Baboneau for UK - Certificate Of Authenticity UK.jpg
Jonathan Karp for USA - Certificate Of Authenticity USA.JPG
Coles listing before it was removed - Coles Website Listing.jpg
Important emails:
Jonathan Karp US - CEO of Simon & Schuster
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
Duane Ward of Premiere Collectables
duane@premierespeakers.com - Others have tried duane@premierecollectables.com
Suzanne Baboneau, Managing Director
suzanne.baboneau@simonandschuster.co.uk
Ian Chapman, UK - CEO
ian.chapman@simonandschuster.co.uk
Bob Dylan's Manager
Jeff Kramer
OK Management
275 South Beverly Drive
Suite 215
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Phone: 310-535-1647
Bob Dylan's Agent
Brian Greenbaum
Creative Artists Agency
2000 Avenue Of The Stars
Los Angeles, CA 90067
Phone: 424-288-2000
Bob Dylan's Production Agent
Sony/Columbia/CBS Records
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Phone: 212-833-7305
Bob Dylan's Law Firm
Manatt Phelps & Phillips
11355 West Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
Phone: 310-312-4000
Bob Dylan's Twitter
Tweet or privatly message Bob on his verified Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bobdylan/
Bob Dylan's Facebook
Post or message Bob on his verified Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/bobdylan/
I also found this email associated with Bob Dylans store. Its worth a try
BOBDYLAN@EPICRIGHTS.COM
Media Publications who may be eager to pick up this story - Please email them a link to this post and all related content
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/corp/contactus.html
For story pitches, please send:
News to Jim Milliot and John Maher
Soapbox ideas to Rachel Deahl
Features to features@publishersweekly.com
Related content:
Dolly Parton is also guilty of using multiple autopens in the same fashion with multiple templates over the years but with a slight twist where they manipulate the page as the autopen machine writes her signature. If we are looking to stop all future attempts at autopen usage, she needs to be held accountable just as much as Bob Dylan and S&S. Link to threads below
Here is a great example provided by Eric Keith Longo
Dolly Parton Autopen Example.jpg
http://www.feelnumb.com/2022/03/09/dolly-parton-fake-autograph-song...
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/dolly-parton-signed...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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Thanks Steve, I had brought these up the other day as I actually own one from Nate. At this point, I still feel it’s real- Epperson COA and also one from Dylan’s manager Rosen. Here is the sig:
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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Steve, Thank you for the tips. I will look into those. My main concern is gathering 100% known Dylan examples that have some kind of evidence of him signing the item. Once I have enough gathered, then I can compare to the many items released by his management. I do feel the more upright style is authentic, with and without the crossed Y but I'm questioning the slanted version especially. There was one shown earlier signed in pencil that I do not feel comfortable with at all and am actively hunting for signs of its authenticity.
I have located many items from decades ago that I feel comfortable with being authentic, but have been questioning everything as far back as 30 years. I'm taking this as seriously as possible and I want to verify a few different styles compared to 100% known in-person examples before moving on to other steps. I may be stuck where I am for a while because I am holding myself to an extremely high standard for the sake of everyone but hopefully will find answers soon.
This is an aspect where I'm sure Epperson or Becket, etc.. have way more resources available to them than all of us do, but are their resources based off trusting Dylan's management like everyone else has been doing for years?
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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The Dylan handwritten lyrics that have been coming from the same source as the albums have signatures similar to the albums. Since the lyrics are not hard to authenticate due to the amount of writing, I think that you can include them in your exemplars. That’s up to you tho.
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You are exactly correct Steve. I have already cross referenced lyrics with manuscripts days ago and posted it here as well as the other thread in more detail. Its how I came to the conclusion that Bob Dylan has in fact signed in the "crossed Y" style but for his signature that is more vertical. I am close to considering them authentic but figure its best to completely be certain of every style and gather all information possible before posting anything concrete.
His signature that slants to the right has me stumped so far. I see many similarities within it but im just not convinced. I have not found any 100% authentic examples where he used this slant as of yet. This seems to be a new style used starting around 2018, possibly earlier (im currently researching that as well) I'm hoping there are more authentic in-person examples brought to light that have been signed in the last 5 years, but as of now, there are none.
This has me pondering if his management had the autopen templates created because Dylan was adamant about his refusal to sign anything these days. It would make sense for them to ask someone who started ghost signing for him around the same time to create these templates and relieve them of any obligation to sign items further. Its only one theory and its not likely but im trying to research every angle no matter how bizzar.
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Permalink Reply by conker on
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This is still way different than the slanted autopen but found this via Rock and Roll HOF's Bob Dylan page
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InkInvestor.
Can you post the secretarials please? Why did you decide they were? I don’t know Dylan secretarial history.
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InkInvestor, you may be right that it’s female writing, but at this point, it’s best not to consider that a fact.
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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on
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I just don't get how they can prove that these were hand signed by Bob. They said they buy the prints from Bob, and resell them. So the only proof he signed them would be Bob/his teams word, and comparing them to the very few in person items he's been known to sign during those times. His/his teams word means pretty much zero at this point considering they passed the autopens off as hand signed to Castle... and not many to compare them to in the wild. I don't see how this won't massively kill the value on any of his signed prints that aren't very obviously in his hand. Unless maybe people don't pay attention or see this when researching their purchase. I know I would never buy one now, unless it was dirt cheap. I'd be very annoyed if I was stuck with one and always had to question if it was real.
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Permalink Reply by Nichole on
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Don’t quote me on this but I’m guessing this is probable
when he signs there are people with him. Someone from the gallery might be present witnessing this. So they confirm. They may not purchase if they don’t see him sign.
now I think they took his word for it that he signed this time around bc of the pandemic and they weren’t there to watch him. So he autopen signed. Passed them off to the gallery. They didn’t notice bc they had no clue about the books and this happened. The guy is that dishonest he needs a babysitter.
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That would be very possible. I know the authentication companies have the PSA or Beckett witnessed stuff that they actually see get signed and aren't just an opinion. I wish they'd be more clear on how they "know" the rest were hand signed... at least for buyers sake.
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Everyone who has PSA, BAS, or JSA witness signings state that, and include the TPA’s witnessed signing COA. It’s powerful assurance to the buyer.
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