Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) are gaining media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION
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“Start Spreading the News”
- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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I still seem to think something suspicious is going on…I’m definitely curious why it’s been suggested that Frank’s are not autopen, but produced via another method. Is that by hand? I’m confused why Frank’s were singled out as being signed by Liza, but no one else’s?
I apologize if I upset anyone by using their examples in my comparisons and suggesting that they may be not genuine, if you contend they are real. I’m just showing things that seem odd to me but perhaps they can be explained otherwise.
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES on
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Hey Matt M., I don't think you have any need to apologize.
We're all working together here.
Something suspicious is definitely going on, and our collective here on Autgraph Live is not the only forum to be sounding alarm bells.
I too can't wait for Steve Cyrkin, Admin to tell us his opinion on what different method he thinks is being used AND why Steve thinks that Frank's are actually signed by Liza herself.
JJ
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Steve, noticed your edit above and thanks for clarifying. If I understand correctly, you think some of these, including Frank’s, are likely real. However, there may be autopen or secretarial involved on some, but not in any of the examples I posted?
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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BTW, Frank. I don't see any telltale signs of mechanical or slow signing on the backs. Autographs signed in marker on uncoated stock often show pooling spots in unnatural places.
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Ok, one more for now…
This is JGLondon’s from earlier, along with Allginger’s from a couple days ago.
I’m just going to show photos of the steps on how the autopen is being manipulated like has been discussed.
First, notice how the L lines up in love:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:Slightly adjust again to bring the L of Liza into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment:I know some of it is not exact…. I did this one in a bit of a rush and I’m tired lol. I’m just trying to show how some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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Pictures are a great addition. Instant eye catchers to compliment your videos, could you add a few to the main post as well for all newcomers or people who won't read beyond the first few pages of this discussion?
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Done… trying to keep it updated, but forgot a coulle rounds. I think I’ve got it now
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Permalink Reply by JGLondon on
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I'm blown away by the work you're doing here, Matt. This is a true forensic investigation, and you must have a major headache by now! Really well done.
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Thanks JG, I appreciate that. And I wasn’t trying to single your example out! (I know I used it several times yesterday). I’ve just been using some of the examples as soon as they’re posted, and incorporating them into the mix right away. I did that with yours and had some success off the bat.
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Are the sigs in similar places on the page?
Assume the pages are tipped in later, can’t imagine the machine would handle the book?
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Permalink Reply by Jor-El on
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Signed books direct from the publisher are almost always tipped in. The machine doesn't have to be like a printer where it's always printing on the same spot. You can have someone adjust the pages so the autograph is in a different spot. We saw some examples of that with James Patterson, where his autograph in some instances was only half on the page.
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