Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) are gaining media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION
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“Start Spreading the News”
- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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JJ, thanks for this. I found a video everyone should see. I wouldn't doubt even better machines than this exist
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. on
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Taking the close-up of Lumpy’s “Z” that was reposted under the other thread, and overlaying it with one of the Facebook examples from the other thread.
There are very slight differences (one of the A’s has an opening, a tail might be slightly longer/shorter here or there). But I don’t see how the placement lines up exactly like this at multiple points if by hand.
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Permalink Reply by MrEntertainment1111 on
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Long-time lurker here who actually signed up to join in this conversation. I agree that she couldn't have done these, but I can't imagine that she somehow has access to a newfangled AI mix-and-match autopen. Something is definitely off, though. And they do all seem to be the same hand. Secretarial seems like a good likelihood.
Here's my copy, from Waterstones.
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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IMG_20260310_114125 (1).jpg, 342 KB -
IMG_20260310_114059.jpg, 2 MB
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Hi JG, glad you joined and thanks for posting your examples. Yeah, I’m sort of at a loss of what to think on this. I’ve seen evidence to suggest mechanical involvement, but also not ruling out some sort of secretarial involvement. I think it’s clear though that she did not sign these.
I took your example and compared it with one that was posted in the Facebook group on the original thread.
-As I first start overlaying, notice the close overlap on the word “Love”. It’s not exact but close- Not enough to be definitive, but certainly concerning.
-Then I start to overlap the Z’s. Notice how the top loop of the L in “Liza” overlaps nicely at the same time that the “I” starts to line up (including the dot), along with the Zs and the As falling into place. It just seems really odd but obviously, the rest of it is not falling into place.
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Ok, I think this shows the issue pretty well. I took a close-up of the consistent elements in JG’s signature and a close up of the one from Facebook. Here is an overlay of that.
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. Yes the “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance. There’s just no way.
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Yeah, those aren't secretarial, the spacing and consistency of the overlapping parts are much to uniform imo. I posted a silly little article about AI autopens over 2 years ago, the article itself wasn't anything significant but I figured it was just a matter of time before the autopens would become tougher to detect. Of course other members have vastly more experience so what do I know, other than those aren't secretarial "signatures."
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ai-can-now-mimic-yo...
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I think I remember you posting that, or at least the subject being brought up before on here. I’ll take another look at that.
Yeah, here is a still shot of the overlay above, showing the Z’s lined up, the top of the smiley face lined up, and the top loop of the L’s lined up closely (I could’ve made that better).
Something caused the “I” to shift over slightly in the example, along with the A.
I think it’s a simple as a bump or someone/something physically manipulating the machine or paper, like was mentioned.
But the bottom loop of the L was changed in size. It still appears consistent between the examples when you resize it. But then the rest doesn’t lineup anymore.
And of course, this could be because they were signed by hand and it’s just a coincidence that things line up here and there (with so many copies being out there). I just don’t know, with so many points lining up that well plus the other examples.
I think really tried to disguise this well, its pretty complicated. I’ve looked at many examples today that I could not get to line up. Granted, I’m picking two at a time randomly but to see something like this makes you wonder:
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Just looking at all the ones on Ebay, they seem too neat, from the width of the pen strokes to the overall spacing of the "signature." Again, I have far, far less experience but none of them look natural when seeing more than a few of them together. These were available almost everywhere and for long periods of time so who knows how many people were ripped off (not including the bookplate Premiere ones ironically).
PS. You're doing the Lord's work here Matt M, much appreciated.
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