Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
Starting this separate thread to track the Liza Minnelli autopen situation.
Signed copies of her new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Overlay Video 1 (click title to play video)
Note how “Liza” matches up (click title)
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Thank you Mikhell, I really appreciate that. I agree that this is continuing to come together as we get more examples. See below.
Julie M and Chris- here are your 2 recent examples overlaid together (Chris, this is your UK indie). Not perfect and still needs work, but a good deal is lining up closely:
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Permalink Reply by Marcus Green
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We've seen a lot of concrete examples this week of real problems with these but I don't think you can beat actually looking at several examples in the flesh and getting a feel. You know what I mean, when you look and are slightly in awe that your hero has touched that page and signed it, when you see they need to swap the pen over because it's running dry, the letters that are different, the chance to see the different strokes between different examples, the different spacing and sizing.
I've had 7 copies in my hand today.
There were none of the feels, nothing about them had a real feel to them and they all felt, well, too good to be true and as my mother says, if it feels too good to be true, it probably is.
I know all of this is fluff around the real issue, however what was noticeable was almost no difference in the size or placement of the signature and that really is something you only get with the book in your hand.
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Here’s mine… Waterstones edition
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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IMG_1841.jpeg, 3.9 MB
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Thank you Axelp123, I’ll add that in and try some overlays.Just FYI to all - if you’ve posted your picture, thank you. For those who haven’t, feel free to do so when you get them.
If anyone is wondering why their photo hasn’t shown up in an example, please know that I am using it to test against others.
As I’ve said, not all of them that you pair together immediately show clear overlaying similarities…others start lining up off the bat. I try to focus on those, if I can’t get a match initially. But know that everyone’s is in the mix and being used
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My pleasure! I asked for a refund
through Paypal and got one. So disappointing of Liza Minnelli and her entourage.
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67
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Yours received the lowest VeriMarx VMX score of the examples I submitted. It received a 74, while the others all received a 90 or above. VMX is an overall consistency rating. That said, there’s nothing in the notes that would point to it being a reproduction. It’s all positive. There’s an interesting statement in the results that I haven’t seen before.
The overall flow suggests an internalized motor program rather than a conscious effort to replicate a visual model.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo
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What do you get out of that Mark?
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I’m not sure why it scored so low as, again, nothing negative is stated in the results. It seems to be saying that the overall flow seems natural to the extent that it gives the impression that it was signed on autopilot.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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The authenticity analysis score and forgery analysis score are the best indicators IMO.
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Authenticity 94%, Forgery 34%
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