Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
Starting this separate thread to track the Liza Minnelli autopen situation.
Signed copies of her new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Overlay Video 1 (click title to play video)
Note how “Liza” matches up (click title)
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Not even halfway through yet and “There’s even an option to slightly deform randomized letters, so that not every A looks the same.”
Yep, that’s exactly what’s going on. And that option to shift the placement of a letter slightly. Insane.
That’s not good…. no more templates that are fully the same and easy to match, only individual segments that might match up if we’re lucky.
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Just saw this and have to agree with you Allginger
"no way she signed all those books!!"
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Permalink Reply by FRANK GARCIA
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After seeing that YOUTUBE video. I have my doubts too. But heres photos of my 2 book front and back.
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Ok, not done yet lol.
Thanks for posting Frank. I just decided to test yours as “ove” look similar in both and I think I’ve seen them before in others.
I’ll try to work on it more tomorrow, but just wanted to show you for now how the OVE lines up exactly between your two examples (and the comma is also very close):
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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Frank, I think yours are signed by Liza. They're not Autopen.
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In fact, I don't think the ones you posted are autopen-signed. I think they're using a different method.
[Edit: I thought I was replying to Matt M. about the original post, not Frank. I don't think the ones in the OP are by Autopen. They could have been done by a different method, and it's possible one or more are real.
How consistently does Liza sign when she's sitting down at a live signing, book or otherwise?
Do we have witnessed examples of her autographs from recent live book signings? I think we need that.]
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Steve, I appreciate you offering your take and we obviously value your opinion. What do you think is going on here?
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I think that some could be machine-signed and that some may not be. I feel strongly that Frank's two are legit. They are well within the tolerances of her normal autograph.
We need numerous photos of her autographs from recent live, witnessed signings.
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Thanks Steve, that’s good to know. I understand what you mean- that example uses a very small portion and I agree it could be within normal tolerances using such a short section.To be honest, I did that comparison fairly quickly at the end of the night, when I started to feel like I was confidently recognizing individual components of an autopen template. I need to examine those more fully and am glad you think those may actually be real. At the end of the day, I want these to be real- I bought one too and think it’s a neat thing to have if real.
But I understand what you are saying. FWIW, I have done overlaying with my own signature. My signature is fairly short and has two M’s and two T’s. I find that the Ms and Ts variously have some points of overlap in my own signature comparisons. However, I am not finding multiple parallel lines and angles lining up as in the Liza’s.
I agree we need some in person / witnessed examples to compare to these generally and still rule out secretarial. I also agree continued investigation is necessary to confirm exactly what is going on. I think it’s very possible these are a mix.
While I’ve seen some that use what appear be too close to say it’s a coincidence, many that I have compare are not similar. I’ve compared examples where I thought, “Hmm, that’s weird…” but didn’t find anything I felt was concrete and would support being posted. Perhaps Frank’s falls into that category and I can remove his example if warranted. I’ve called this the Autopen thread as it does seem there is at least some evidence of that but I don’t mean to suggest they all are at this point.
Anyway, thanks again for your guidance and please let us know if there’s anything else we should be considering.
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What "different method" do you mean Steve Cyrkin, Admin ?
Secretarial? Secretarial mixed with some autopen??
Anxious to hear your opinion on all of this...
And you think both FRANK GARCIA are signed by Liza herself, even
though Matt M. demonstrated both of Frank's OVE overlap and line up exactly??
The plot thickens...
JJ
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I still seem to think something suspicious is going on…I’m definitely curious why it’s been suggested that Frank’s are not autopen, but produced via another method. Is that by hand? I’m confused why Frank’s were singled out as being signed by Liza, but no one else’s?
I apologize if I upset anyone by using their examples in my comparisons and suggesting that they may be not genuine, if you contend they are real. I’m just showing things that seem odd to me but perhaps they can be explained otherwise.
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