Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) are gaining media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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“START SPREADING THE NEWS”
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- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Thanks Johnny, that’s interesting…I’ve added this in.
I know there’s a lot of overlapping activity on the thread, so reminder for everyone please be sure to read back through and not just the latest comment
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Permalink Reply by Lester Freeman
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First book is from Wave of Nostalgia uk independent book store.
The second book is from The Bookery uk independent book store.
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Got it and noted….I’ve added these in. Thanks Lester.
I know there’s a lot of overlapping activity on the thread, so reminder for everyone please be sure to read back through and not just the latest comment (if you are following). I apologize if I’m talking over anyone’s comment.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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Both of Lester's show mechanical movements.
Lester, could you please take very high-resolution images (3000+ pixels wide) of the first and last names and the face separately, and either save them as PNGs or send me the phone's files? They can't be even slightly degraded like most JPEGs are. I'll do a deep analysis of them.
Send them to my mailbox here.
All members: I'd like to get yours, too. very high-resolution images of Liza's first name, last name, and face separately, as close as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format.
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Sure
I’ll do it tomorrow in daylight not now it’s dark !
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Steve, whatever you are doing with these and whoever you talk to behind the scenes, make sure you and everyone involved acknowledge and gives credit to Matt M. for all of his hard work.. can't stress that enough
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Thank you Jason and JJ, you guys have both been a lot of help to me behind the scenes and I can’t thank you enough.
I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the level of response this topic has gotten. It’s pretty clear that people are interested in whether the signatures are real or not.
I shared what I noticed when I started comparing some of the signatures on my own, with my own copy and with a few that had landed on eBay. That was actually a week ago tonight, when my copy arrived.
I researched the subject and waited for the topic to be brought up here by others. I decided to share what I had found.
If others see the same concerns, or if they don’t, that’s completely fine. Hopefully we can all keep looking at the evidence together and work toward a better understanding of what we’re seeing.
Also, I want to acknowledge that the overlays I’ve been posting are just a basic visual tool I’ve been using to compare shapes and spacing. They’re not meant to be precise measurements or a definitive method of authentication…..just a way to highlight patterns that caught my attention.I don’t think that’s unreasonable, and I understand people may have differing perspectives or ways of explaining what we’re seeing.
Ultimately, the best way to evaluate this will probably be with high-resolution images and, ideally, the opinion of a professional authenticator who can examine the signatures carefully (or even in person if that’s possible). I’m certainly open to that, and I’m interested to see what comes out of it.
MMODD lol - thanks JJ.
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Agreed, Matt is GREAT. He's doing a top-notch, very important job here. The Overlay Device needs to be patented quickly.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo
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+100
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OK "KIDS",
LET'S PLAY THE LIZA MINNELLI BOOK VERSION "LET'S MAKE A DEAL"
CHOOSE AN OPINION DOOR:DOOR #1, Stroke victim Liza at 80 years old and largely confined to her wheelchair, still managed to signthousands of beautiful plum perfect autographs for her fans. Pay no attention to some exactmatching overlaying parts and spacing between different exemplars.(This echoes what was said in her mom's the Wizard of Oz,"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!")DOOR #2. Liza and her team has big brass balls, and were devil may care stupid enough,to emboss the cover of her book with an actual template sample. They were alsocareless enough to use a 1990's Liza autograph sample to build the multiple varyingtemplate puzzle pieces, to cut, paste and finally feed into the Advanced Autopen machine.(I mean she used AI on her last music single, and it's already concurred that Liza "read" her audiobookusing an AI generated voice drawn from her 1980s and 1990s speaking voice).DOOR #3. VeriMarx seems to like all of these Liza "autographs" and we now should all just trust in AI,(because Machines evaluating other Machines is okay and not dangerous to the Hobbyor Authentication process. I mean what could go wrong?) "Open the Podbay door Hal"I'll take Door #2 for the win!JJ
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