Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) are gaining media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION
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“START SPREADING THE NEWS”
- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There is a view among many on this forum that this suggests a repeatable mechanical process, raising the possibility of advanced autopen use, potentially based on older verified signature templates.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
⚠️ ⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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this is the second HUGE star, we've taken down on this site.
It sucks to be right though, because I really wanted these to be real, especially when
I saw the first beautiful exemplar autograph that michelle received and posted.
These new Advanced Autopens with an arsenal of deviating templates, really do terrify me!
We must protect our Hobby that we all love so much, and continue to do so using this forum you created for us!
We all must keep watch and call autopen fraudsters out each and every time they attempt
this greedy deception!
jj
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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More popping up.. hopefully this gains international attention
https://www.aol.com/articles/exclusive-liza-minelli-fake-signature-...
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Matt M. Can I have your autograph? I'll send you a printout of Liza's autopen. I'm seriously only half kidding. Would be a cool memento honestly haha
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Lol, thanks Jason. Could not have done this without your help and the help of everyone here on the forum. A huge thank you to all, I feel like we may be getting somewhere…but even if this is all that gets published, then at least we got the word out a bit.
I hope this might help anyone having difficulty receiving refunds…may want to direct retailers to the article. I also hope it makes others aware who are sitting on copies of their book, thinking they’re real.
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Permalink Reply by JK
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She could do a lot to dispel the rumors by sitting down in front of the cameras and signing a couple dozen pages. But I think we know how that would go...
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Speculation of course but maybe a reason why she cancelled NYC. They may have tried to sit her down to sign replacements. Saw it was impossible and would only prove others are mechanical further. Probably didn't even attempt to go that far though. No way around it. Funny how her cancelation coincides with the release of this article.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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Good job, Matt! That'll help get the word out for sure!
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This is a win for our hobby and Matt deserves all the praise. My only complaint would be that they are focused too much on Liza and the use of autopen machines while not addressing autopen advancements in a way that they should. I'm a bit torn with the media response and not sure if this is enough from them.
As a person with a heart. I'm actually upset Liza has to deal with all the backlash when it should be the publisher and even the creators of these new machines. Getting upset at a celebrity isn't going to stop autopen use in the future if it continues to advance.
There are currently ways this can be used without detection. I'm honestly scared about anything released in the future, this includes preorders and even one off items on the secondary market. How would we know who has these machines and how they are used. Anything flat is susceptible to fraud now
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Thanks Jason. A bit of a crazy day, as you are well aware. Thanks to everyone on the forum for helping us get this far.I agree with you about Lisa, it’s a shame. If she was unable to sign the books, fine…but they (whoever it is) didn’t have to do all this.
I provided some additional information/background to Radar regarding the points you make, and implications for the hobby…hoping that may get incorporated into the article.
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https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/landing-page/about-hachette-book-...
Bottom of the page for all of their contact information.. time to hit them next after a night of celebration. This isn't over.
Awesome Matt.. hopefully radar will make some changes and additions. Not taking anything away from what you already accomplished though. What a great day this was for our hobby
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Just my opinion, but I’d bet Michael Feinstein is behind all this. He’s co-author of the book, he’s obviously a close confidant that she trusts, and in viewing the recent videos of Liza it sure looks like he’s calling the shots.
If he didn’t come up with the autopen idea he probably at least signed off on it.
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I guess it wouldn't hurt to attack a little here too then lol.
https://www.instagram.com/michaelfeinsteinsings?igsh=MWdiNjFobXpqZG...
Or here
https://www.michaelfeinstein.com/contact
But I probably won't be requesting an autograph.. unless for research purposes
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