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Authenticity is Everything
Why do so many dealers & Auctioneers still sell obvious secretarials?
There are a number of known secretarial autographs, that have been fairly common knowledge for many years. For example, the Jackie Gleason secretarial that the UACC did a story on about 20 years ago. But many auctions & dealers still sell the "Honeymooners" signed photos with the Gleason secretarial. . Apparently, Gleason didn't sign Anything himself via mail requests (like most celebrities) . Then there is the Jerry Lewis secretarial. They all seem to keep popping up in many of the autograph auctions. Now, I am not claiming these reputable dealers are incompetent as many sell such large quantities that secretarials are bound to get through.
But here is one current auction that has both a claimed in person Jerry Lewis and dean Martin photo and then they also have a Jerry Lewis signed check. Look at the Lewis signature on both and see if you think both were signed by the SAME person. The check is authentic. The photo has the same style signature I got when I wrote to Lewis's office many years ago. Note the major difference in how the "R's" are written in Jerry. This is pretty consistent in all the REAL Jerry Lewis in person signatures, contracts, checks, etc vs his mail request autographs.
I have included images for both items
Any thoughts?
Kevin
Celebrity autographs
vintage movie posters
Autographed sports memorabilia
Tags: autographs, celebrity, jerry, lewis, secretarial
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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Lewis-Martin-sp-iconic.jpg, 36 KB -
Lewis-check.jpg, 51 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Iconic is Jeff Woolfe. from my experience with him i consider Jeff an ethical guy. if it's pointed out to him and he thinks he may have made a mistake, i think he'll pull it.
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Permalink Reply by Nancy C on
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Iconic relies on Autograph Certification Experts (ACE) and Justin Priddy for the authentication of many of their auction items. I wonder if any of these items are authentic. Too bad they don't just use PSA or JSA for all of their auction items.
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That's troublesome.
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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on
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I know Iconic does use JSA for many of their items.
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Permalink Reply by James Green on
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Jerry Lewis always puts the date under his signature. He signed twice for me, and that was the case both times.
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The company I used to work for was heavily involved with MDA. I met him twice at our companies yearly convention in Las Vegas. He signed for me in 93 and 95. I heard he kept an office in Las Vegas and was real approachable when there.
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Same here. I only collect and sell vintage autographs, mostly Hollywood 30's-70's. And, only signatures i have acquired a level of expertise on via several signature studies, in person examples and legal documents. For example, with my Jerry Lewis example. ABout 15-20 years ago I wrote him three times and recieved 3 autographed photo. Around the same time I acquired a contract signed by him, then a check and noticed the photo autograpphs were drastically different from the legal documents. One day I called his office and spoke to his secretary and she eventaully admitted to me that his mail autographs were often signed by a secretary and that mine were most likely secretarial. And, when I compared the mail sigend photos to the legal contracts it was so obvious I didn't even need that additional confirmation. .
Celebrity autographs
vintage movie posters
Autographed sports memorabilia
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Yes Bob,
Will do
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Permalink Reply by Chris Klamer on
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I recently received some donations from Mr. Lewis and I did this through the mail. I did send him my photo's and a check for MDA and he signed the photos and also sent a signed trading card and a limited edition bag with the tag of the bag signed for a donation to the charity I work with.
I think the autographs on the card and tag will be a little different because they are so small compared to having more room on my photos.
But I think the most common PP I see for sale on eBay or anywhere else is Neil Armstrong and they advertise as original. I can see someone that doesn't know any better but it's the exact same photo and the signatures are all exactly the same.
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Good thing Iconic only uses Autograph Certification Experts (ACE) for their low end (below $100) auction items. It's probably because Justin doesn't know the high end signatures like Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Williams, etc. Virtually no one in their right minds use ACE for their high end items.
If ACE just focuses on the low end autograph market (mainly bench players and second and third string reserves or college athletes), they might actually be good with those signatures at some point. ACE should just leave the high end autograph authentications to the big boys like PSA/DNA and JSA, who actually know the signatures.
I don't know if ACE purposely passes fake signatures just to please their customers or if they are just not knowledgeable about signatures and too afraid to admit lack of knowledge. In the end, collectors who rely on their expertise or lack of expertise wind up paying the price.
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I think you're being too kind, Nancy. I don't know why anyone would use ACE for genuine autographs, period.
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