Charlton Heston Secretarial Signature Study

 Hi:

At Steve Cyrkin's invitation, I'd like to call your attention to a signature study I've posted on my blog, Charlton Heston signature study by Steve Zarelli.

I believe I have identified the "tell" in Charlton Heston secretarial signatures, and if I am correct, the news is not good for most collectors. It appears that most  Heston signed photos are secretarially signed.

 

Here is a synopsis:

The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.  

Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."

In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."

I have attached two images to give you a small sampling.  

For more details and images, please visit my blog at the link below.

I'd love to hear your feedback and thoughts on this. I fully anticipate some resistance to the theory, because denial is always the first step. In fact, I would love to be proved wrong, because that would mean I wasn't sitting on a bunch of secretary signed photos!

By way of introduction, I have been collecting since the early 90s and I am the UACC Ethics Director.

I look forward to the discussion.

The Collecting Obsession

Regards,

Steve Zarelli

 

Tags: Charlton, Forgery, Heston, Secretary, authenticating, autograph, secretarial

Views: 26123

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dennis on March 16, 2011 at 2:20pm

I sent out over 100 TTM requests when I was in the Army. I was a tank mechanic and when the tanks ran fine, I had plenty of free time. All of the TTM requests were an index card or page from my autograph book. 8x10 photos were too expensive to mail. In the case of Heston, I mailed 2 rolled posters in a mailing tube, after getting permission to send them for signing, but no 8x10's I remember meeting Heston in 1999 as clearly as I remember meeting Vincent Price in 1982. You guys have all ready made up your minds so I'm moving on to find threads about collecting horror stars like Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, Lon Chaney Sr and Jr, Vincent Price etc. While I respectfully disagree with some of the opinions in this thread, I agree with the advice that if you have concerns about the authenticity of any autograph, for any reason, don't buy it. Dennis

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 2:31pm

you might want to check isitreal as they seem to have a pretty good handle on the horrors associated with many signatures... some unfortunately have been poopawed as merely signature variants.

Vincent Price - now that is a keeper and I'd keep that 1st one you posted as well as there are little doubt in my mind on that one.

Come to think of it I am starting to really really disklike Rolf (lol)

Permalink Reply by Rolf Ramseier on March 16, 2011 at 3:20pm
you got it I'm Frankengraphs monster :-)
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 16, 2011 at 2:52pm

Dennis,

Why don't you start discussions on each of the horror stars here? They'd be a great asset. I'll create a horror forum category later today, and move your discussions there.

As for your Hestons: Don't get discouraged. Many more collectors will read it over time and consider what you said. Your input is an important part of the record and discussion.

Steve

Permalink Reply by Michael Barrucci on March 16, 2011 at 2:56pm

Well, Dennis, being a classic horror fanatic I'd love to have an authentic Boris Karloff, Bela Lugosi, Lon Chaney, etc.. the problem is that I am NEVER able to be completely satisfied with a celebrity autograph unless I saw the star sign it myself. Now, I realize this is impossible from the aforementioned deceased stars (but I still got the still-living Christopher Lee in person!), so I'll just have to miss out.

In fact, I did buy a Bela Lugosi on Ebay some 11 years ago for $365, and the reason I bit on it was because it came as a page from an old autograph book and the seller had other individual pages being sold too on other auctions. The seller claimed his grandfather used to be a crew worker on movie sets and it was his personal book, and the pages looked old, so I figured it could be real. I got the Lugosi signature, matted it with a Dracula photo, hung it up on my wall -- and every day that I looked at it, I was never sure it was Bela's signature. It looked far too nice and perfect, more like Lilian Lugosi's or something. I eventually sold the blasted thing.

Dennis, I just don't think you want to face the cruel possibility that many of your Chuck Heston TTM signatures probably are frauds. Hey, I'm very upset about it myself - I may have 7 duds here! And while you may be remembering meeting Heston in 1999, you may be misremembering certain photos you got signed from those meetings.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 16, 2011 at 3:35pm
Dennis may be misremembering, but he may not be. I think it's important to preserve evidence and "testimony" to the contrary as part of the record. It will help people make informed decisions and it may accumulate and form a trend that needs to be examined.
Permalink Reply by Dennis on March 16, 2011 at 3:32pm
This subject is getting old. I met Heston three times after the play Love Letters. He signed over 20 photos, lobby cards and books for me over those 3 days. I sold / traded half of those items but I am standing by my original statement that he signed the 8x10s in person. Unless Heston's secretary is also his twin brother, the scans were signed in person for me. I am tired of being called a liar or I can't remember if I got them in person or TTM. I have only sent Heston 2 rolled posters in a tube and an index card, never an 8x10. I keep excellent records for my autograph requests. I'm done here

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on March 16, 2011 at 4:48pm
Dennis,  Just roll with it.  I had hoped to make it clear that I don't think anyone is calling you a liar.  These folks mean the VERY BEST ( well except for one happy person ) and are trying to put  a HUGE puzzle together. I don't want to see someone attacked over their addition to the finished project.
Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on March 16, 2011 at 5:09pm
LOL!  I don't think it has reached that point yet.  Plus, I'm sure Steve wants to encourage as many new people to post photos and stories as possible.  I for sure want my Dang CHALL signatures to turn real too LOL!
Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 5:18pm

I gave up as the evidence with the complimentary studies and then some is just too overwhelming as you know.  Then he sold his collection but has meticulous records and oddly enough our boxing pal shows up shortly thereafter... Ok, I was born at night it just wasn't last night.

 

Speaking of signings - Remember my story on the Autograph Store?  They had the mysterious "3rd party" obtain the signatures and specifically stated the events but as we know our rant & raver cast serious doubt on one even though the event was bonafide, then all three to which an offer of reimbursement was made.

 

While Steve's intentions are admirably the problem with that thinking is that when you open the door you don't know what's gonna walk in ;-) 

 

Since I tested Rolf in no uncertain terms candidly and he finally realized it with some of my postings - I have no doubt whatsoever in his observations, insight and knowledge.  Now, complimented by the Zipper and now a number of others - the opinion to the contrary needs to be much more than "oh I attended this that and the other thing"  beccause there is another story about opinions are like... but I am sure you know that one  ;-)

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on March 16, 2011 at 5:26pm

I know, and you know I agree...Plus, You know where I am coming from ;) Don't ya buddy?

 

As far as Rolf, He and Markus are AMAZING guys and serve the hobby well. I enjoyed my time as a part of the isitreal.com staff until they had to make it exclusive for German experts. still, I stand behind them 1000000000000000000000% . I'm very glad they are here and the hobby will better from it I PROMISE!

Permalink Reply by Dennis on March 17, 2011 at 8:33am

This was the first autograph signed for me when I met him outside the theater in Dallas. I remember this was the first photo he signed because it had been previously signed by Steven Boyd and I wanted Heston's signature so this was my first priority. If Heston was only going to sign one photo for me, this was going to be the one. I don't have any history on the Steven Boyd signature. I consigned this photo years ago and this scan is of the catalog image of the photo.

 

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