We're an eBay affiliate and may be compensated on purchases made through clicks.
Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Lance on
-
Looks good to me... $400 is pretty fair price I'd say... and the balls looks to be bright white! I never heard of an auction letter before... I saw this ball as well on ebay and the seller is offering a 200% money back guarantee. Hold him to it if it doesn't pass the JSA or PSA test!
-
Permalink Reply by Jake Tolin on
-
Hello to everyone one here. I have just found you after searching for something like this for a long time now. I just got through all 21 pages of posts in this discussion and found it all very interesting and helpful. I have been collecting for about 15 years now and still have trouble sometimes, especially with these 3, and usually stay away from them regaurdless. I do however have some Mantle and Williams with all the right stuff. I will post a couple I've had trouble with and see what you think. The first is a 500 hr ball.................yeah, I know.........but it did have some good qualities with some signatures. The Mantle is very fluid with good spacing, but Ms aren't like what I've seen mostly. Williams is pretty good, but there are spots like the s on the end. I did find some that are like this authenticated, but not often. Same goes with pretty much all who signed this ball. I have a general knowledge, but need some good advice. The ball is a National League ball with White as president. I got this along with many other items that have recently been JSA authenticated, but didn't want to spend the money till I had a better idea. They all came from a good friend of Bob Feller's that passed away about a year ago. His wife said he got it from a trip to Atlantic City to meet Feller about 20 years ago. I appreciate any input. Thanks
-
Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
-
Ditto. No good.
-
-
I didn't think it was, but at least I didn't lose out on it! Like I said most of the stuff I got was all good, but this I had my doubts. Same with these.
-
Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
-
these are VERY bad, especially the maris
-
-
I think it's funny how some people would drop big money for this item though. It's just something that was buried in a stack from an estate sale, so I'm not really out anything. Anyone with some common sense would realize just by the paper it's printed on that it has been done in the past 6-8 years and to be authentic would have to date back over 15! Just another one to write off. I'll do my part though and dispose of them properly! Although the Maris should really go to a hall of shame somewhere!
-
-
Current (Not so great) 500 home run balls
I found on ebay...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-Home-Run-Club-Multi-12-Signed-Baseball-...
The mantle above is real but isn't one of Mantle's best signature efforts....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-HR-Club-Autographed-Signed-NL-Baseball-...
another real but bad looking (The M's bug me) Mantle sig on a ball from Mill Creek (below)....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-HR-Club-Autographed-Signed-NL-Baseball-...
Would you add steroid era 500 home run players to a ball that has Mantle, Williams, Mays etc..?? I think not... who would pay $5k for such a ball? see auction below...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantle-Williams-Mays-Aaron-Rodriguez-500-HR...
A suspect Mantle (shaky "M's") signature below...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-Home-Run-Baseball-11-Signatures-/260935...
The only 500 home run ball (below) that I've made an offer for on ebay... luckily the seller declined because I picked up an awesome one like it from Steiner Auctions last November which I posted here....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-HOME-RUN-CLUB-PSADNA-SIGNED-BASEBALL-11...
Message to the novice collector:
A 500 HR ball is a great additon to any collection but be careful before buying one as many have a combination of real and fake signatures that deceitful individuals are passing off as the real deal. You will find that Mantle, Williams and Mays are the top three forged on a 500 HR ball (from my personal experience ) as they were and are the most expensive to acquire. If a ball has anything but a PSA or JSA cert stay far away.... not worth the risk.
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
-
Lance,
Are you the one who picked up the ball from Steiner for about $550?
That was a killer deal.
The Mantle on ball #3 looks like a forgery style we see here a lot.
Photos
Videos
Groups
© 2024 Created by Steve Cyrkin, Admin.
Powered by
Badges | Report an Issue | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
