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Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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Beauty.
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Permalink Reply by Lance on
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Thanks for the vote of confidence replys...
If you don't mind me asking... What price would anyone here pay for this ball? Is anything under $500 a fair price with no cert? I normally purchase cert balls so this is out of my norm...
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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depends on what it is on. is it a bobby brown ball? if so, then anything under 500 would be a great price, considering the condition that the ball and signature appear to be in.
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Yes... the sig is on a Bobby Brown ball. Here's another clean example on a Bobby Brown Brown ball well under the $500 mark... I may buy as well.
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Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on
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I am late on this but yes...its good as my com padres already posted opinions on it
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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on
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"The hobby was (and still is when TPAs simply sell out) ruined long ago. All we can do here in our own little portion of the internet is provide some information to make people dangerous (as was the original focus of the thread). It would be helpful to keep the educational part in addition to the postings in concert with the original focus"
So true DB. None of this was around when I discovered the hobby was such still a mess 7 years ago. I had to learn on my own and from pioneers like CW. Now, because of it, I have just COMPLETELY lost my enthusiasm to collect autographs. I still have my hoard of Mantle's and other nice items, but the collection is being, and has been pairing down nicely.I hope before anyone else buys a forgery, they "AT LEAST" check the internet.
You do have to understand that people are basically MORONS. When you have less than a 50% Graduation rate for High School students in the US. There is an aptitude problem. The US just breeds idiots and the forgers know this. How do they know this? They are mostly low life scum morons themselves.
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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Your right Fudd, and it isn't just the HS dropouts as those who have $$ are the many who continue to buy and I suspect have a college degree.
I remember Cyrkin giving crap to "vanderhoven" when he just kept posting Gleason after Gleason depicting a PSA miss aud nauseum. But here there are some who just keep doing the same thing - no explanation(s) whatsoever!
One reason to post is in case someone buys one of them someplace else (not from ebay as there are several "external EBAY consultants" on these threads that report fakes which is why they disappear so fast, I suspect. The other is to continually edumacate others. This nonsense about not giving forgers a headsup is nonsense - they already know -or- I know something you don't know and i ain't gonna tell ya!
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"Your right Fudd, and it isn't just the HS dropouts as those who have $$ are the many who continue to buy and I suspect have a college degree"
I have a friend who is taking 8 high school buddies to Germany this year. I don't know why Germany of all places?
We do say he has "MORE MONEY THAN BRAINS". Thankfully the goofball (Motivational Speaker & owns a Sales Training Company) hasn't taken up autographs, but I suspect there are many like him college educated and all.
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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
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Another set of CSC Collectibles (on Ebay's Banned COA list) certed forgeries of Mickey Mantle & Ted Williams. This one is listed by Ebay seller snlbdesign78. Geez, the starting bid is only $999.00 for these horrific forgeries.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKEY-MANTLE-TED-WILLIAMS-DUAL-SIGNED-FRAM...
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Here's a Mickey Mantle forgery with a COA from Shop At Home. These forgeries that were sold by Shop At Home still infect the hobby.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Single-Signed-Perfect-10-Base...
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