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Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on
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how about the old adage, "you get what you pay for"? Imagine that?
You said you "paid a fortune for this one" and it's authentic IMHO, Imagine that...
look how he just hit the sweet spot perfectly with that signature..it's a beaut
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Permalink Reply by john klancher on
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Thank You i respect your opinions here and am happy you feel that way regarding its authenticity but i also paid a mint for the Pretronello print ive seen here with Drew Max COA and bought 2 mantle ball from B&J in nineties 1 i sent in to JSA and got back a letter stating the numerous flaws also bought a ball from Upper Deck which i know is good PSA/DNA letter with it. This one however has always been my favorite so i am very happy also would like to hear others opinions. I never had a COA just a bill of sale from auction house regarding its authenticity but did alot of research on it over the years and forgeries exist of this print 1 on ebay now but they r without artist sig..........JDFAN
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Mantle2.jpg, 31 KB
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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Looks good in my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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the Yaz is putrid
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Chris how do you know the items from King Kong Tom are fake? You need to take down your post before legal action is filed. With a full COA backed by Ebay (GAI) your post is reckless and a fraud trying to deface buisness. Remove it now please since you are assuming and do not know for sure.
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And the black and white photos were signed at the Mariott on Long Island in 1993. Again, know your info before posting please.
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Permalink Reply by James Wymer on
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All the items have been removed from Ebay and King Kong has left the building!!!
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Few Things:
1. I "left the building" because it was approaching midnight. I have other committments in the am. Actually pathetic that it looks as if people slept with their laptops on this post.
2. Any pictures from anyone's ebay account cannot be up on this site and you are not authorized to put them up. I have contacted this site, who must take them down and you are non complaint with the terms and user rights by having it up there. Your own membership is now in jeaopardy unless all photos are removed and you stop with the reckless discussion.
3. Your accusations are distructive and untrue. YOU have ZERO credibility to make such claims of what is authentic. I have 15 years exp, worked with Tom Catal (from the Mickey Mantle meus. and have done business with consultants from JSA and Steiner sports.
4. Your apology means nothing since your credibility means nothing. After supplying Ebay with the authentication for all items, they agreed that they should be listed.
5. Steven Stipe is the authenticator from the GAI Mantle.
6. Yes, i was personally there in 1991 - 1994 to get things personally signed. Items that are not for sale and some that are.
7. Enough with your witch hunt - find another sucker. Any further false commenting will be dealt with by legal.
Thanks - see you guys at midnight on a Friday night?? Hope so.
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appears EBAY has cancelled the sale as well; This listing (170891322264) has been removed, or this item is not available
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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
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I owe an apology to Ebay seller "king-kong-tom."
His "500 Homerun Club" signed photo is very authentic. Thank you goodness he never took me up on my challenge and I now withdraw my challenge to him. It would pass PSA authentication.
Again, my apologies to seller "king-kong-tom." His "500 Homerun Club" signed photograph is authentic.
A friend of mine persuaded me to look at my secondary exemplars and the autographs on it are authentic. That same friend showed me a Mike Schmidt exemplar of his that matched the one on the "500 HR Club" signed photo. The Mantle on the photo is absolutely authentic, as are the others. This is the first time I have ever made a mistake like this and I do apologize for it.
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I am just back from an appointment and wanted to elaborate on my mistake.
When I saw the Schimdt autograph, I jumped to the wrong conclusion. I didn't even look at the Mantle and Williams autographs. This was sloppy on my part. I was overzelaous. I never looked at the other autographs. That was sloppy on my part. At this point I have to calm down my emotions.
This is the first time I have ever done something like this.
I am not not making excuses for my mistake. During the years that I have been exposing forgeries, it has gotten very emotional for me and lately more so.
This only concerns the "500 Homerun Club" item. Nothing else. The GAI certed Mantle is still not authentic. But once again, I did make a mistake on the "500 Homerun Club" signed photo.
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