Am I right to think that the Monroe signature in this photo is secretarial?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 6, 2020 at 4:46am

You’re right, Monroe didn’t sign it IMO.

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 23, 2020 at 1:06am

Hi There

This appears to be real and signed between 1950-55.

Although it could easily be mixed up with Secretarial Style D on my Marilyn secretarials blog.

http://marilynmonroesecretarials.blogspot.com/

I might be rusty though, so will spend a little longer on this.

Sorry, I only just saw this. And it's tricky to see the form of the letters on the darker part of the picture. But I think there is a very good chance it's real. The link below shows a signing from the same era and the "Marilyn" is a dead ringer for yours.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YGBvZoDDJ_U/UfOvjGIHgdI/AAAAAAAAAhk/iNZz...

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 23, 2020 at 1:14am

Hi Pauline,

I would love to see exemplars real and secretarial similar to this when you get a chance. You're my goto on Marilyn.

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 23, 2020 at 1:58am

Hi Steve

Well I can't upload photos tonight for some reason, I get an errror message. But I will also provide an examplar of her printing, instead of writing "To" and it is very much her way of printing.

It's not a great signing because I can't even see the rest of it, but what I can see is very encouraging.

But, it is indeed super tricky as very similar looking to one of the lesser known secretarial styles, red pen and all, same photo series too. I will post when my computer lets me.

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 23, 2020 at 2:26am

Hi Steve

I have sent you a couple of images to your email address. What do you think? Can you post them on here?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 23, 2020 at 4:04am

Hi Pauline,

I’m sorry, I didn’t get them, at least not yet.

I’ll be back in a few hours. Use this email if you weren’t: Steve.cyrkin@autographmagazine.com

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 23, 2020 at 1:01pm

Thanks Steve, have sent three relevant images through to you.

Another aspect that makes me think it is authentic is that the near identical secretarial is usually written on the same or similar photo, also in red pen, but that signer seems to always sign on the background, not across Marilyn's chest, whereas Marilyn did sign across her own chest/flesh sometimes. That's quite a big psychological point of difference, quite meaningful too. It's her body, she owned it and could write across it? But she also did this as a gesture of intimacy or even suggestion, like the one to Joe DiMaggio and to her fans who were well known to her. There is one like this to a truck driver or cop she met, right across her chest. This one of quite hurried and careless though, so a very odd auto.

The fact that it looks like almost three different hands, one on each line, is also consistent with her writings on occasion.

I have printed this out now and the red pen in the dark part of the picture seems smeared. It's a terrible, not v desirable autograph if real. Wish I could post images on here to illustrate why I have some hope for this too though. A very interesting and puzzling auto.

I can't see "Kisses" clearly at all. If the K looks more like a gnarly H, that is the secretarial style (Style D). If it looks like a pair of scissors, then it's possibly authentic (I know it seems like a crazy opinion) - as there are other things that are bang on, especially the printed To and Alan.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 24, 2020 at 12:16pm

Sorry for the delay, Pauline. Here are the images you sent me to post:

So the top one signed in red is the secretarial I used to own. This lady at 20th Fox went out of her way to copy Marilyn's signature, she does it well, making this secretarial the trickiest of them all.

The second two are excerpts are from hand written notes both printing and writing from Marilyn's hand - in the "Fragments" book

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 24, 2020 at 12:22pm

Here's a comparison of the in the OP and the secretarial next to each other. I couldn't get any more contrast out of "Kisses".

The "&", shapes of the "L" of Love and "T" of To, the "A" and "LN" of Marilyn look similar to me.

I still think the one in the OP is secretarial. Sure is an interesting discussion.

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 24, 2020 at 12:53pm

Hi Steve

Thank you for that, yes I am fascinated with this one as it truly does look like that secretarial and only that secretarial, which isn't a common one - however every other example of this secretarial writes in the background not across the body. I am split on this and truly the thing it has going for it is the printing, which, as the examples show, seem to be among Monroe's varieties of printing. Super tricky, but tantalizingly possibly real, and probably always thought to be secretarial. A few more sleeps on this one :-)

I will send you another one on email that hopefully you can put online here. It is a real one to Joe DiMaggio, but it has no Monroe, as per her very personal signings.

You probably think I have lost the plot liking this one, (maybe I have).

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Permalink Reply by Woody2Shoes on February 24, 2020 at 8:35pm

I agree. "To Mr. Hill", not MM, possible sectretarial. But I don't like the "To Alan" either. The M's are OK but the rest doesn't look convincing. Especially for the 1950-55 time frame. I don't think either rings the bell as a convincing MM.

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 24, 2020 at 10:35pm

The To Mr Hill one is definitely a secretarial - it's the secretarial I used to own actually, formerly displayed in an USA casino, (since resold to an Italian Marilyn fan).

Not enough details on the auto in question, what's in the shadow? you just can't tell. I have found several real Marilyn's now with the same "To" on it though.