Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich on March 1, 2013 at 1:42pm

If you're looking for a third party authenticator who's infallible, there are none.

While PSA and JSA have their share of flaws (and I'm personally not a fan of either), I would think that if the poster has 10+ signatures on it, that should be more than enough evidence for them to draw a solid conclusion on the poster's authenticity.

You can always post an image and see if there's anyone knowledgable on the forum in the autographs on the poster.  It could serve as a helpful pre-screening and potentially save you some money authenticating something that is decidedly no good.

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Permalink Reply by Steven Jackson on March 1, 2013 at 2:30pm

i agree post a picture here and we can help you get a better idea on if it's good and who to ask about certain signatures. The members here are very knowledgeable and i think it would help ease your mind

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Permalink Reply by David on March 1, 2013 at 2:52pm

Thanks for the quick reply, guys.
Ok, I'll try to take some pictures and post them tomorrow.

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on March 1, 2013 at 3:56pm

Hi David,

Im not sure where you heard the horror stories about PSA or JSA from, but more than likely the people that told you that were either inexperienced, or are angry b/c PSA and JSA have failed their items, or are making it harder for them to sell their items on ebay. Its an argument i see all the time, and i normally dont even respond to it lately b/c its a losing battle. But when i hear a collector talking about how horrible PSA and JSA are, typically the seller really has no clue what they are saying. Typically its some garbage about how they know their items are authentic, or got some item signed IP and they failed it, etc. Typically though, if the collector posts the item in question, most of the time, the majority of collectors agree with PSA or JSA. But these companies do fail items on occasion that are good. But that can often be a good thing.

The main complaint i often here is that these companies dont know what they are doing b/c they fail items that they saw obtained in person. While this does happen, most of the time, the collector is probably stretching the truth. But PSA and JSA will fail items via quick opinion or in person that they think are questionable. If they are uncertain, they tend to say not authentic. The signature may be 100 percent good, but if its atypical and they arent sure, they will typically er on the side of caution and say they couldnt authenticate it. This often enrages ebay sellers and some collectors b/c they got the item signed IP. When in reality most dont stop being mad long enough to realize why PSA or JSA failed the item. Atypical sigs can be very difficult to authenticate.

Now of course on the other side of the spectrum are the signatures that it doesnt seem like anyone can authenticate. The squiggles and the odd shapes that people use as signatures. While i agree that these probably shouldnt be authenticated, their are times when they can. Certain characters, such as Pacino, that have signed a million times, have extremely good signature libraries. PSA and JSA have exemplar files that most never will see, and often when they make a call about these signatures, its b/c they have enough evidence that its real to proceed. Sometimes they dont, but often they do. People criticize them all the time for this, but in reality, if they knew the exemplar files they had, then maybe it would be clear as to why they said or did one thing over another. And most dont realize, that these guys who work for JSA and PSA do nothing else every day of the week but authenticate autographs. For most of us, its a hobby that we enjoy, yet to them its a profession. They authenticate signatures all day long and see more examples than most anyone out their. They get the privilege of having acess to a huge exemplar library that the public just never gets to see. So when they make tough calls, its often b/c they had the evidence to support their calls, and the legit examples to support that argument. Legit examples and huge numbers of them, that could have only be acquired through everyday autograph study from exemplars from around the world.

Now some may use the same argument for the other authentication companies out their that have very bad reputations. And yes these reputation are most likely well earned. Do a search of this site for any company you are questioning and you will find your answer. The difference is, that these companies often have error rates that are horrific. Comparing these companies to Psa or JSA is like comparing cats to dogs. Despite what their owners say, the proof is in the pudding. And that proof is all over this site.

In this forum, you probably actually wont find too much bad about the companies. Most here seem to agree that there success rate is the best out their for an overall authenticator. Roger Epperson is the best out their for music, and he also authenticates music for JSA. So any music item authenticated by JSA has also been seen by Roger Epperson, thus you will never find a better authenticated music item. So music wise, for classical rock and other music, id go with JSA. Roger doesnt do certain types of music, so for those, id go for PSA (more modern pop groups). For actors and hollywood, both seem to be very good companies. The members of this forum, and no offense to other forums, are typically more serious and more educated collectors. The opinions that are given here are typically far more accurate, concise, and less biased than any of the other autograph forms. This forum is fathoms more professional and accurate than forums such as startiger and fanmail.biz. 

PSA and JSA are not only typically attacked by members of these more inexperienced forums b/c they lack the knowledge to understand why certain items were authenticated/ or werent authenticated. Not only that, but alot of the time, these members have no idea their items are bad that they got TTM/or a trade, and dont want to believe it when they get the negative opinion. And then again you have the ebay sellers who have had their business effected by PSA quick opinions and such, and these people trash PSA and JSA all the time.

And then of course, you have the 2 smut, trash, and slander autograph sites on the net: Autograph News Live, and Autograph Alert. These sites were created solely to discredit legitimate autograph sellers and authentication services. Their members only consist of about 6 or 7 guys who post under many different names. They make up lies and slander anyone who makes it hard for them to sell their forgeries. They promote known sellers of forgeries, and at the same time do anything to discredit legitimate sellers. These 2 sites are the true autograph trash heaps out their, and should be avoided like the plague. Never trust anything you read their, as its probably a lie.

But PSA and JSA do make their fair share of mistakes. They occassionally screw up some easy calls as well. But its my experience that these 2 companies are extremely good at what they do. Far better than 95 percent of the others out their. Because of these guys, and services such as PSA QO, collectors have been saved millions and millions of dollars. Forgers know this, and they hate it. They want PSA, JSA, Roger Epperson, and this site gone. It hurts the sell of their forgeries, and they will do anything to discredit these people. Their are people out their who do have good reason to be mad at PSA or JSA, but for the most part, when i read someone trashing them, i very rarely give them any credibility. As i said before, most of the time the people who trash them are either selling forgeries (unknowingly or not), or have had their ebay business effected by PSA. Either they have failed their items or they have made sells harder b/c everyone wants psa or jsa authentication now before they buy. I would say thats the number one reason why you hear people hitting them so hard. They tell everyone that PSA and JSA and Roger Epperson know nothing about graphs, but in reality, it typically is them who dont know that much.

But all that being said, i think these 2 companies are great for the beginner to experienced collector. They are great safeguards for getting real graphs. It has been my experience however that the very educated collectors typically dont need these companies to know if something is legit. And it typically is these really experienced collectors who find the errors psa and jsa make. The difference is that when a very experienced collector catches these errors, they dont go bad mouthing the company, they typically discuss how the error was made, and often it was an easy error to have made. Alot of the guys on this forum, are extremely educated on autographs and thats why you dont see all the B.S. and trash talking you do on other autograph forums. 

My presonal opinion is that these companies have helped to clean up an increasingly cutthroat hobby. They are both efficient and good at what they do overall.

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Permalink Reply by David on March 2, 2013 at 3:52am

Thank you for the long and detailed reply, it gave me something to think about. Perhaps people are slandering PSA or JSA because of a personal grudge.

Anyway, I'll upload pictures of the signatures in the "Authenticity Opinions" part of the forum today. Maybe you guys can give your thumbs down right away so I don't have to waste money sending the movie poster to any authentication service.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on March 1, 2013 at 4:01pm

Hmmmm....

Who is "David?"

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Permalink Reply by David on March 2, 2013 at 3:54am

Oh, I'm sorry, we haven't been properly introduced yet :) 

I'm David from Sweden, how are you doing. Nice to meet you, sir!

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Permalink Reply by David on March 2, 2013 at 8:32am

I've posted the images, seems they ended up in "Town square" instead of the "Is this real" section.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on March 2, 2013 at 10:49am

with any of these TPA's, you are paying for a professional opinion on an item.  It is an opinion, not a guarantee of authenticity.  there is no such thing, unless you obtain the autograph in person.   They all make mistakes, some really inexplicable.  Personally, I have more confidence in my own abilities and of some of the contributors on this site, than I do in JSA, PSA or any of the others.  so I would not use them to help me determine an item's authenticity.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on March 2, 2013 at 11:23am

I agree with Terrier.  One other trend I'm starting to notice is that some diehard fans tend to be more savy in certain celebrity autographs than most of not all of the pros.  I feel that many in person collectors have certain wisdom that some of the authenticators may lack as well.

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Permalink Reply by Eddie Anderson on March 2, 2013 at 11:33am

+1

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Permalink Reply by David on March 4, 2013 at 1:25pm

Yes, the contributors on this site seem to be very competent. But the professional authenticators also do Ink/Medium Analysis and have access to high-technology authentication tools like the Video Spectral Comparator. 

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