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Authenticity is Everything
CGC Signature Series vs. Official Pix
I have a comic signed by Jack Kirby and I'm looking to add Stan Lee.
I'm debating whether I should use Official Pix next month to get the Lee signature and then I could always get PSA or JSA in the future.
Or, do I wait for a CGC Signature Series opportunity? Obviously, CGC Signature Series is a first person witness service as opposed to a third party. But, does it really drive that much difference in terms of market value?
Other items to consider...
* I'm a bit concerned about waiting too long for Stan Lee. While "The Man" appears to be in good health, he is 90-something years old. So the temptation to do the first available signing is strong.
* CGC Signature Series is expensive and can take many months to get the book back.
Thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on
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Chris at OPix is 100%, he is someone I consider a friend, he treats the stuff like it's his own, and he has never let me down.
CGC will treat and slab the book as if it is signed by whoever they witness, and treat the Kirby as if the book has been previously written on.
Add to those facts that I see a slabbed comic as a completely idiotic thing.
Those are just my thoughts.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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I think we are on the same page, Pete. I was thinking of long-term value.
CGC Signature series may be huge with comic collectors, but I do not think it has made much of an impact with general autograph collectors in terms of desirability or driving a large price differential.
Yep... the Jack Kirby signature will be considered "writing on the cover," which means the max the book could get is an 8.5.
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Permalink Reply by Mike T on
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CGC also won't cert the Kirby graph so if you really want it slabbed I would go with OPX and get it slabbed by PSA after.
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I don't need it slabbed.
Steve Borock's new company, CBCS, grades and slabs comics and offers an authentication service as well if that is the way someone wanted to go. Unlike CGC, they will authenticate signatures after the fact.
That said, I have not heard how reliable their authentication service is. At one time not too long ago, comic related forgeries were few and far between. It wasn't a common target for forgers. Who is going to fake Herb Trimpe or Dick Ayers?
More recently I have seen quite a few Lee fakes and some Kirby as well. I suppose the forgers eventually find their way to fake anything that's worth a buck.
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If you're going to get it authenticated at all I would go with PSA, they will hold the most value. The reason to slab comics is more for the grading than the authentication, and the grading values come down to reputation of the grader. Getting the signatures authenticated is a bonus.
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Permalink Reply by TradeGeek on
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"CGC Signature series may be huge with comic collectors, but I do not think it has made much of an impact with general autograph collectors in terms of desirability or driving a large price differential."
I agree with Steve. The comic collector market and autograph market are two different animals. I would go with the end result preferred by autograph collectors on an item like this.
The same issue pops up all the time with sports autographs. Old school cardboard collectors like me are horrified when we see a high grade vintage rookie card that somebody had autographed. Most pure autograph collectors would find the combo attractive. I'm not sure if the comic you have is of significant value on it's own or not, but once it's signed the hard core vintage comic collector is out of the picture. They would rather have a pristine comic book and an autographed photo vrs. a signed vintage book.
With your comic I think you would be shooting for an autograph collector over a vintage comic collector. I'd go with PSA.
I'm assuming the fee for the Lee signature is around $80 - $100. Lee is signing all over the country right now and fees seem to be consistent. I don't think you'll gain much by waiting.
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Permalink Reply by JXE on
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If it were me I'd go with OPX. They are the only company that does send-ins that I am 100% comfortable with holding my precious items. Chris will treat the item carefully and you will be pleased with how it turns out.
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Another company I have had a good experience with is OC Dugout aka. OC Celebrity Marketing. www.ocsportscards.com. I believe the Roger Moore signing OPX is marketing is an OC Dugout private signing. I have sent several multi singed items to them for a private signing and they came back promptly with a nice auto (they took their time). They typically have PSA at their signings as well (they are both based in Orange County). For $10 to $12 more you get a "witnessed" COA from PSA.
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I have done a ton of preorders with them too. I did have one strange experience, though. The Christina Applegate photo I got from their private signing had a very slightly feathered signature. This was maybe a year or two ago. I wrote in with a picture and I said it looked like another photo may have been put on top of it before it dried. I asked if I could send it back for another. They apologized and said their signing with her was a little different because she wanted to do it at her house and she limited how many helpers they could bring. Understandable.
I get an email a couple of days after sending it and the guy said he looked at the autograph and couldn't see anything wrong with it. He said he showed it to everyone in the shop, including another dealer who happened to be there and no one could see feathering to the signature. He then said they were all like that but he'd send me the best one he could find. The one I got back did not have a feathered signature.
Was I being picky? I don't think so when I was paying a premium to have an autograph from a sit down signing where things like feathering shouldn't be a problem. I found it odd that he would take the time to tell me that all of his friends thought I was wrong.
Another time I bought a PSA'd item off ebay from them. It arrived with no certificate. I asked if they still had it and someone wrote back saying it didn't come with one and I should have known that because it wasn't pictured in the listing. Fun fact: almost none of their items are pictured with certs on ebay.
I stopped ordering items from them after that. I would do it again if they got a name I really needed... but I would go in with reduced expectations.
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That's good to know. Most business I have done with them recently has been in person with my son. He's as much into meeting the athletes as he is getting the autograph. What I have purchased from them for private signings has gone well.
That said, when you are paying that kind of premium you have every right to expect a perfect autograph. Mistakes happen that obviously aren't their fault, but they should do everything to make it right without giving you a hard time. You have every right to be picky when your paying $100 or more + shipping.
OC is doing s private signing with Corey Seager (Dodgers young shortstop) soon. They are charging $100 for flats and he's only signing 250 items. A friend of mine got a bat signed for me by Seager at spring training in 2015. The autograph isn't his best at all. I'm tempted to have another bat signed but at that price (for a guy with about 250 career at bats) I would expect it to be a pristine example. If I got back a sloppy one like I already have I would throw a fit. I was on the fense, but I might be more careful if they don't back up their product. Especially if I send them a $130 Seager model bat.
Thanks for sharing. I will be careful with them.
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I am just updating this for posterity if somebody comes across this thread in a future search.
My recent experience with OC Dugout has been very positive. They are the only game in town for Dodgers private and public signings. I have had multiple items signed and purchased several more. There was an issue with an Adrian Gonzalez bat which was not their fault (his agent didn't bring the model bat I pre-ordered for the signing). The communications with them has been good and I have no complaints.
I know another member had an issue in the past. I can only comment on my experience, which has been very good.
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Unfortunately, it has become a moot point. I won a Jack Kirby signed Fantastic Four #1 Marvel Milestone Edition on ebay for a great price. (From a Dynamic Forces signing in the 90s.)
It arrived yesterday with a chip ripped off the upper front cover. It was shipped in a rigid mylar with a fold over flap. There was a ragged tear in the mylar seam of the flap... apparently the comic shifted around and the ragged edge caught the top of the cover.
I didn't need it to be a 9.8, but a tear out of the front cover ruins the eye appeal. It's going back to the seller... not OPX. Too bad.
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