Authenticity is Everything
Does collecting still make sense?
Hi,
I have been collecting autographs for a while now. I do this mainly by buying CDs and LPs from famous artists with the signed art card.
In the meantime I have noticed and read that many artists use an employee who signs for them or an auto pen. Often when I order a CD or vinyl with an art card via the official site of an artist I know for sure that it is not authentic because there are still many signed items available.
I have read many articles in which there is doubt about the authenticity of a signature, take for example Dua Lipa and Lady Gaga but why would these not be authentic and those of Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift authentic? All these artists sell a lot and they are interested in selling the album. Apart from the experts and collectors, the average customer will not notice that they use an employee or auto pen because they are far too busy themselves.
It seems to me that of the popular artists maybe 2 out of 10 have signed themselves the other 8 are actually wasted money which makes this an expensive hobby where it is not clear whether you are really in possession of an authentic signature even if it is.
This makes me wonder if it is still worth continuing my collection since collecting signatures costs a lot of money on average I pay between 60 and 80 euros for a cd with art card on Ebay.
I would like to hear your opinion.
Thanks in advance.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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I feel like I could write a book to answer this... to sum it up, everyone collects for different reasons. What made you start collecting? Has that reason changed and if so, do you still enjoy it and have fun?
To me autographs are a moment of time from someone's life. Like I trapped 3 seconds of their lives within a photo or peice of paper. I do have a collection of autopens and fakes but its fairly small. Whenever I receive a couple duds in a row, it does injure my spirits for a while but I always bounce back when I look at my collection as a whole. These signatures are too important to me. For music especially, they enhance my feeling of being connected. Its a feeling that I know I will look back on and enjoy in my retirement years. I also enjoy the chase in general.
I've been in this hobby off and on for over 30 years and I feel its healthy to take breaks every now and then. Organize what you have and re-evaluate how you feel about continuing. If you do come across autopens, secretarial signatures or preprints, you need to put the effort in to fight for your money back. You should never allow anyone to make you feel this way about a purchase and im sorry you have dealt with it so much. This site is a great resource and we do fight on here when things like this happen. Continue to be active on her, always continue learning and it will get better.
For me personally, to answer your question, yes.. it is very worth it but you have to decide for yourself if you feel the same. No one can decide that for you.
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Permalink Reply by Danny on
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Thanks for your response. What a beautiful way of putting it. I certainly understand your reasons for collecting!
I notice that there are so many discussions about the authenticity of an art card where I don't understand the logic. How do you know if an artist signs them themselves or has them signed?
As an example, I bought the LP with art card from Dua Lipa from her website. It has been for sale for months and since she is popular, it will be sold a lot. With most other artists it would no longer be for sale, but with Dua Lipa they are still offered on her website.
I have now received the card, but I still have doubts because they differ from some other examples and because she must have signed a huge number of them to still sell these cards.
The doubt about authenticity can of course also come from the fact that it has been proven that some artists are not real, which is why it would be so much better if most of them actually signed them themselves
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You have to learn how to authenticate autographs yourself based on known good examples. You can't always rely on 3rd party authenticators like PSA, JSA and Beckett. They occasionally get things wrong. I try to rely on items signed in the same picture with the celebrity but also authenticators with a COA stating it was signed in their presence but even those can potentially be forged. Its a lot of research in general and comparing. Some celebrities require way more research than others.
In the case of Dua Lipa, thats actually one I didnt have interest in and stayed away. I haven't researched her at all so wait for others can chime in with more info or you can always search the older posts as well.
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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23 on
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Get outside your comfort zone.
I collect signed books. A good chunk of my collection is comprised of books from authors who are very familiar with Canadian audiences, but who aren't lighting the market on fire (and there's no market for faked books, as they're so esoteric in many cases that it would never be worth it).
As Jason said, take breaks. Collect different things for different reasons. Do your research. You're on a site that tends to target the top 10% of historic artists/notable autographs -- diversify your holdings and try different approaches to collecting.
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That's good advice.
One good thing about this hobby is that there are no rules about what to collect. You can set your own goals and parameters.
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100%. I initially started out collecting signed sports stuff and a handful of authors, spent a few years collecting any signed books I could get my hands on, and now I'm very intentional with what I get:
- signed books from specific labels (Dundurn, McClelland & Stewart, McGill-Queen's U Press)
- business books from specific authors (just got my first Richard Branson signed book a couple weeks back, actually)
- Spec'd heavily into a specific author's work, closing in in a complete signed mainline run of her work
I've been fortunate to get several other "grail" items in my lifetime, and either gave it to other collectors or sold a handful of them to fund other purchases. At the end of the day, it's all about what makes each collector happy.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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I've been collecting for over 40 years. At the beginning, it was about getting my favorite baseball players, then it grew to other areas and today, it is all over the place! I have always studied the autographs of people that I wanted to collect, and I can honestly say I have never bought an autograph simply because it was authenticated by a TPA.
I am fortunate in that I collected most of my signed baseballs before the prices sky-rocketed. Today, if I want to add a player, I wait until I find what I consider a bargain, and sometimes it takes months or years.
I also have a presidents and music collection I am at the point where I have almost everyone that I want, but I still look for bargains and when I see one, I usually go for it even if its someone I already have.
Regarding signed CD's, there have been instances (well documented here) where autopens have been used. When someone you want in your collection posts a new, signed cd on their site, you just take a chance because if you wait until they are in circulation to verify the authenticity, the prices go way up via resellers. so far I have not been burned.
There is no doubt that this can be a very expensive hobby. My recent "plunge" was into Disney's Zorro, where I have collected over 20 signatures of the key actors from the series, over 60 unsigned photos, (all of which were purchased at very good prices) but I had to add Johnson McCulley, the creator of Zorro, to my collection. that one was NOT cheap! But it was a "had to have". I am sure the collectors out there understand what I mean!
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I have noticed that with signed books there are almost no forgeries while with signed art cards on vinyl and CD there is often only a scribble which gives the impression that it was signed by someone else.
I also notice that the autopen is used for the art cards and these are also almost never found in books.
Is this also your experience?
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Autopenned/secretarial sigs in books are not out of the realm of possibility; look at what happened with the Millie Bobby Brown fiasco a few months back. That said, I find that generally there's a higher track record/hitrate for the legitimacy of signed books vs. signed CD inserts/artcards.
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Exactly!
I looked up the book and indeed it seems to be signed by someone else.
Actually, it is true for all signed items such as books and vinyl that you do not know for sure whether they are actually signed by the artist.
Why would one artist sign a lot and let the other do everything while some do not get caught if they let someone else sign?I am considering continuing with a vinyl collection and sometimes taking some autographs. I have a collection of autographs, of which I am not sure if they are real, in fact most of the art cards are probably fakes.
Of course I would rather continue my collection, because this is a hobby, but I now buy expensive stuff purely for the autograph, of which there is a very real chance that it was made by someone else.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Indeed. While not malicious, there was an autobiography by Audrey Meadows that bears a bookplate signature, and that is often sold on eBay as genuine. Usually at least one up at any given time.
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