Authenticity is Everything
Elton John & Brandi Carlile Who Believes In Angels? (Indie Excl.) Elton John Signed
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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I'm really sorry that happened to you. That just sucks and I wish I could help you go after your Springsteen. Events like this tend to drive us even further into this hobby. Im a victim in a different way I did to myself. I stupidly let a Ghostbusters cast signed photo go before Ramis died. Ramis was my last signature in person to get on this particular photo.. I wasn't happy with the placement. He signed over a dark area. My thinking was, it was so easy for me to complete this photo, ill just have it redone. It was a fun challenge. I let it go for $80 along with all my sports collection to pay for college. Ramis died but I have 11 items signed just by him remaining in my collection. I thought it would still be easy. Ill catch Aykroyd on his vodka tour. Luck would have it, I had 5 total surgeries on the same leg over the years and EVERY time he was signing, it was right after a surgery and I was scared about blood clots pushing myself too hard. Bill Murray became impossible. I even met him again in 2017 thinking this was my chance but he would only sign a cd. No ghostbusters stuff.
This entire ordeal lit a fire in me and I turned from a casual collector into neurotic OCD type collector. I more than doubled my collection, more like tripled in the last 8 years from the previous 25 years. I know for a fact that im trying to compensate for my loss.. I honestly amaze myself with what I've accomplished over the last few years because of this fire inside of me.
I understand where you are coming from and can't fault you if you are happy with this release. But I am willing to bet, this release did not extinguish your fire. Deep down, you know you are still going to want a full signature to make up for your previous loss. If not, you are a better man than I am.
I have a chance to try and get Bill this Saturday actually but my daughter and I just caught a bad illness and we won't be over it in time. It seems im cursed with bad timing but people ive talked to say he's notoriously bad on this tour anyways.. Let's say Bill did sign for me but I knew he would only sign a B... I don't think I'd want it. Definitely not on my Ramis signed item. I'll take it because its better than nothing but I wouldn't pay $25 for it. I know it won't do anything for my collection or for my own mentality. It will drive me deeper to feel the need for a full signature, luckily of which I have 9 of total - I went crazy collecting ghostbusters stuff in the 00s
Maybe you guys are different than I am with this hobby. If you are fine with a scribble, who am I to say any differently. I just know my own struggles and how these squiggles affect me. I will never be happy with an Elton squibble no matter how much I try to convince myself. I did not purchase this release and I have zero regrets about it.
You can't tell me I'm wrong for continuing the fight for celebrities to sign full signatures. It made a difference with Gaga, why not continue here with Elton? Why give up the possibility of ever having a full signature from him in the future? He deserves some type of backlash just for lying about how his eyesight is connected to his signature
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Permalink Reply by Jorge Marin on
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I learned my lesson about "trading" over 10 years ago. I did a trade with another collector, sent my item and never got anything back. There are people out there who are just not honest and totally hurt the hobby. Stay away from trading.
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Permalink Reply by JK on
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So we're not only fools but now we're "hurting the hobby".
Buy what you want. Don't buy what you don't want. Leave other collectors alone.
I don't think Lady Gaga made any decisions based on anything that was said on this website.
How many people complain here but do nothing else to help fix an issue? Apart from the Bob Dylan fiasco I am not aware of any real initiatives.
The last time Dolly Parton pulled an autopen scam I sent letters to her at every address for her that I could find (six in total) to let her know how disappointed her fans were at the deception. I have no idea if that had any impact but atleast I tried.
Back to Elton... I was never able to get a fuller signature CD because they either weren't available in the US or they sold out too quickly, and I was not interested in buying from a flipper. This latest offering, which he has said will likely be his last, did not sell out immediately because it was an abbreviated signature, and I'm glad because I was able to get one.
At this point, the choice is not between a full Elton John signature or an initial, it's between an initial or nothing. I chose the initial over nothing.
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JK, funny you mention to me about Bob Dylan and how that made a difference.. and for Dolly, I was right there fighting as well. Ill keep doing whatever I feel is right for the future of this hobby. And yes, this does hurt the hobby. Tell me how it doesnt.
Also, knowing Elton, I highly doubt this will be your last chance. If he stays healthy, he will retain his drive to be in the spotlight somehow down the road.
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What hurts the hobby is the demeaning and ridiculing of other collectors for their choices.
There will be plenty of people who never read this site who will buy this stuff regardless, so belittling the few who happen to be members here won't change anything.
If you don't like Sir Elton's signing habits then why not write to him and let him know? I am mostly a TTM collector and I realize that many collectors only buy autographs, but for me sending off a letter is second nature.
I hope are correct about future EJ signings, but with his health issues I doubt that he'll be doing any more full signature offerings at the underlying product's issue price.
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I don't think I ridiculed anyone. I said RELEASES like this hurt the hobby. Not the people who buy them. Its kind of expected that a release like this would sell out regardless. What im doing is taking a stand and yes I have sent many emails voicing my displeasure along with more emails showing the German release proving it was never about his eyesight. I can only do so much as 1 person and im not just some guy throwing my opinion around on here while doing anything else. I would like to think that I've proved that over the years on here.
I'm not sure if you are hurt by what I said or what others said and just directing it towards me (maybe a bit of both) but it is never my intention to ridicule anyone on here. We are all in this together and I try to treat people how id want to be treated, unless it happens indirect while im fighting for the hobby. I do a hell of a lot behind the scenes and don't always post about it so you are definitely fighting with the wrong guy if you think I just come on here to complain. Difference of opinions happen and we can talk about it to come to the best conclusion. Please don't think that im trying to hurt you directly.
I do understand your point. Like others have said, its not exactly easy to fully take just one side on this. Im glad more collectors are able to get a piece of Elton while he's still around. I can see how it can be exciting for some, but this also means the mentality of short initial signatures has already dug in and is becoming part of the culture. Its hard to see old time celebrities like Elton turn there signature into this, when it wasn't long ago that he gave a full beautiful signature to everyone. Just know my intentions are to fight for all of us as collectors to make sure autograph collecting evolves in the best way possible. Maybe part of me is hurt seeing these changes and as a long time collector, its making me feel like I'm getting old. This could be affecting what I say without realizing. Plus im sick as a dog today and have a lot to deal with so my mood is not exactly great. Thats said however, You must see that I have a point. I would never give this much effort if I thought it was a waste of time
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Permalink Reply by damageinc777 on
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It all comes down to a choice though. In this case people knew exactly what they were getting. So you either buy it or move on. And leaving a negative review is okay. Opinions are welcome. But nobody needs to keep pounding the wall to get their point across. Their original post did that. And after some said they were happy with what they got they don't need to be made to change their minds. I agree with almost everything that has been said on here. But I also see the other sides point of view and reasoning. And I have to respect that.
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Such peculiar hills we choose to die on
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Permalink Reply by Jor-El on
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Out of all the artists using a short sig, I think Elton is the one least to blame. I think he's doing it right.
If we're realistic, there's only so many hours an artist will invest in signing autographs. If he had given a full signature, these wouldn't have been as accessible as they are now. More fans would have missed out.
With Elton you have options, you get what you pay for. He's being transparant and I think there's value for money. $15 for a signed Elton is a bargain. If you want a full sig there's the £500 Genesis book.
Even the expensive White Label vinyl came with a first name sig even though it wasn't advertised like that. That suggests an awareness that there should be value for money and I appreciate that about him.
Much more so than the squiggle The Weeknd is giving for example, which wasn't advertised like that.
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I think people need to understand it is a trend. Elton used to sign his full name, then reduced it to Elton, then tried the autopen (which thankfully backfired) and now clearly is using his health as an excuse to sign (or have people sign for him as it can never be authenticated) only an Ex.
In all honesty, I think the record companies are the ones pushing this, they have proven to be dishonest in many more ways than one - noticeably and increasingly over the last decade - passing autopens as real, packing signed items in flimsy envelopes, cancelling orders at the last minutes with no valid reason, banning people who dare raising a credit card claim, refunding 1p on a 50 gbp bundle (no one would have ever bought) because that's the cost of the signed art card etc...
The criminals are not necessarily the artists, but the record companies, who have no morals and do not give a toss about the fan and even less the collectors.. Artists are being told / convinced what to do and they do it. Clearly everyone has understood the the signed album craze wins number one spots more often than not.
On a side note, what do we thin an actual full Elton autograph is worth now? I mean a real one, not the obvious fakes on ebay.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Nobody complained when David Jones went from "David Bowie" to "Bo°"
Fuller signatures are more desired but the later Bowie versions are not seen as incomplete. On the other hand, the vast majority of Bowie's are "Bo°" and the majority of Elton's are "fullish" I would think.
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