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Permalink Reply by goodcat on September 28, 2018 at 11:47pm

well someone has it now

I can't say if the sigs are authentic or not for sure. 
There are parts of the EC that look correct. The curve of the E is in the ballpark but "ric" is a bit odd.  And the number 9 is formed reasonably proper. 

If this piece is authentic then it had to have been a special sit down signing. 
George's ink matches the print color and Eric's ink matches his print color.
And both have perfect placement. 
If this is a one off piece then it was signed for someone special. 

Upon further looking...
Why is the poster so beat up and the sigs still perfect condition?
Where is the glass? (I don't see glass or maybe it's non reflective glass)

It's items like this that need much more than a COA as the provenance

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Permalink Reply by Beatleworld on September 29, 2018 at 4:37am

Both of these signatures are unfortunately not authentic. Jsa get a lot wrong so not surprised at all.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Strecker on September 29, 2018 at 5:44am

Another one for the "hauls of shame" website? Super!

I really do wish a better business bureau or even a government watch dog would come down on TPAs. If they so much as authenticate one fake autograph, they are not experts. If they so much as deem a real autograph as unable to authenticate, they are not experts! I would just as soon trust the guy with a magnifying glass on pawn stars as I would these TPAs.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on September 29, 2018 at 5:47am

So, to be an expert, someone has to be perfect and infallible in your opinion?

Is there any human on earth who has performed their occupation without making one mistake?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on September 29, 2018 at 6:10am

There is no "guarantee" of authenticity. Where does it state the item is "guaranteed to be authentic"?

No third party authenticator "guarantees" authenticity to my knowledge. They are offering an opinion. The value of that opinion is determined by the market.

Like all companies, they are held accountable in the court of public opinion, which ultimately determines if a business succeeds or fails.

I typically stay out of these TPA bashing discussions because I am a TPA. Funny how many people bash TPAs, yet my inbox is full of many of the same people asking for my opinion.

Frankly I should have stayed out of this one because I don't argue with people on the Internet. It's a waste of time. I had a weak moment and had to respond to the absurd comment alleging that anyone who ever makes a mistake -- even one -- cannot be an expert.

There will be billions of foolish and poorly conceived messages posted on the Internet today. That one just may win.

That is all from me. Carry on and good luck.

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Permalink Reply by fab432 on September 29, 2018 at 6:51am

That is the issue for me as well.  Buying an autograph in today’s market can be a very difficult process. Therefore there is sometimes a high value or trust  placed on “expert opinions”, LOA’s, COA’s and provenance stories. It seems odd that in this instance a professional appraiser’s opinion can be questioned by so many individual collectors.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 29, 2018 at 8:01am

Jason,

Your opinion that an expert can't be an expert if he makes mistakes is not an unusual one; but it's not true. Experts are human and everyone makes mistakes or can have difference of opinions.

Court cases are a prime example, both criminal and civil. Each side brings in their own experts and they usually come to different conclusions.

This is especially true in fields like autographs where authenticity is often subjective. And unless it's signed on something or with something that the subject never could have signed or a copy, every autograph is subjective.

That said, it's clear that the TPAs that don't specialize in particular category of autographs are not as accurate as they should be. Mistakes should be rare; not 5% or more of submissions, which is what I think it is for non-witnessed autographs.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 29, 2018 at 8:05am

The BBB is worthless BTW. Many of the most notorious sellers of forgeries have an A+ rating.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Strecker on September 29, 2018 at 6:41am

I just feel that there should be more oversight for the TPAs if they want to be such a big business. Retail stores have to return merchandise because a customer 'just didn't like it' and paint stores have to return used paint because the customer just didn't like the color or didn't care for how the paint performed. TPAs should at least have a money back process if an item was deemed to be other than the original TPAs authenticity/non-authenticity claims. But there's not because there's no oversight for these businesses. And they are businesses just like Sears, Macys, JC Penney, Lowes, Ace, Home Depot, Toys R Us, KB, Food Lion, Giant and many more.  Sure, a customer can chose not to use the TPA after a displeasing experience but overall there's no emphasis on amazing customer service with these companies. Their employee base are primarily nameless people unless at an autograph show at one of the tables.

Steve, I respect your expertise. You were putting out your expert knowledge on your website in the early 2000s before we had all these business TPAs. On this site you "show your work" which is all your hard work to show why an autograph may or may not be authentic. With the business TPAs, customers get a letter with goofy terms like "atypical slant" or "known exemplars." Maybe these TPA businesses should have their currently nameless/faceless employees show their work on their official websites. Even when I do google images on an autograph and it comes up on either JSA or PSA site (I don't remember which one)-it comes up with a few "examplars" and a basic, shortened Wikipedia page biography on the star but no information on the stars autographs. Heck, that guy Rolf (IIRC) shows his work on celebrity autographs. TPAs, if they want to be in the business, should have a rep posting their work to show why an autograph may be deemed real or not real. I think the "hauls of shame" website should be required reading for anyone who puts so much of their thought into thinking their autographs HAVE to have that TPA sticker on their items.

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Permalink Reply by Corey Moylan on September 29, 2018 at 6:54am

Zoom in on the Harrison. The last name is an absolute mess

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 29, 2018 at 8:55am

I don't think either is genuine. Harrison's looks pretty far off to me overall.

Regarding Clapton, the kick-back at the end of the G is virtually always horizontal and this one's at a 45-degree angle. And the date is a mess, with no characteristics that I've ever seen on his.

But these are just my opinions. I'd be very surprised if Roger authenticated this.

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Permalink Reply by Tiziano Vianello on September 29, 2018 at 10:40am

Felt pen is not good for autographs for.me... It's more hard to see a fake... For my opinion.

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