Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kai Jones on December 19, 2022 at 11:07am

The best way to train your eye is to study. Find real, known examples and study them. Compare them to each other and to others - find common traits. Build a library and continue to study. There is no substitute for putting the time in to learn - third party authenticators included.

You can be your own authenticator, it just takes time, patience and the desire. What is a TPA other than someone who has done exactly this?

Will you be infallible? No. Nobody is - third party authenticators included.

The real fun is in knowing the real thing from the fakes. To find the bargains because youve done your homework and can identify the one that nobody thinks is real bc they havent put in the work. 

Once you do this, you eliminate 90% of your problems. Outside of studying, look at the seller. What is he selling? Is he pricing things more or less in line with real market value? Or does he have 16 sets of Zeppelin signatures and selling them for $300 apiece?

If and when you get stuck come here and ask opinions. Take them with a grain of salt, but there are many sets of good eyes here. Finally, if you are truly stuck, seek out a pro.

Permalink Reply by Kendrag33 on December 19, 2022 at 11:24am

I only started in October and have acquired 9, soon to be 10 tomorrow, all “Big 3”… NOT counting the fake I got at “too good to be true” prices and broke the first rule I made which was to only buy authenticated graphs!…

Wld u consider it “wise” to maybe purchase a few phonies at a steal just to study them? And what about using photoshop? You have any tips there? How effective is that method vs seeing it in person? I buy from eBay so photoshop wld be VERY helpful if I knew what to look for other than dots and shaky lines but ur advice is sound; all I can really do is seek advice and study! So study I will! And if there’s anything u can add I’m always open to advice or shared knowledge!! I thank you!

Permalink Reply by Kai Jones on December 19, 2022 at 11:50am

I wouldnt buy a fake (on purpose) for any reason. I dont use photoshop so no advice there, sorry. When buying on Ebay, sight unseen, just pay by methods you can recoup if necessary. A good printed fake would be difficult to suss out, although that has never happened to me in all my years of buying on Ebay. But again, study your seller too. Its easy to spot alot of these fakes/fakers just by looking at their items and pricing. If its too good to be true…

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 19, 2022 at 1:05pm

As others have wisely mentioned, there is no substitute for experience and learning from others.

I invite you to watch a few of my videos as a primer to help identify bad sellers and autopens.

Permalink Reply by Kendrag33 on December 19, 2022 at 1:54pm

Thank you, excellent information in there. I appreciate it! And I’ll be sure to keep an eye out for any future videos you may post on YouTube on the subject!

Permalink Reply by Rich on December 19, 2022 at 2:29pm

I guess I don't follow specifically what you mean by using Photoshop. But forgeries do not come down purely to shakiness. Not all forgers are doing what they do by mimicking the handwriting carefully. In fact, plenty just scribble whatever and sell it with a worthless story or COA.

Permalink Reply by Kendrag33 on December 20, 2022 at 2:17am

When I use photoshop I can alter the lighting in a way it appears to reveal auto pen markings on some… where the pen or marker has gone back over itself for just a moment in a straight line (if that makes any sense?!) I must be mistaken for I’ve never heard anyone mention it, ever, so I shld forget that theory altogether, huh? My takeaway from all this is to STUDY STUDY STUDY! Study and acquire as many TPA graphs as possible and study them w the eye; not use photoshop! And nothing replaces or compares to experience so be patient. Find trustworthy sellers and third-party authenticators and buy from them ONLY! But most of all ENJOY! 
  Lmk if there’s anything you (or anyone else) can add or contribute… KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE AND OPINIONS ARE ALWAYS WELCOMED HERE!!

Permalink Reply by Kendrag33 on December 20, 2022 at 2:40am

Permalink Reply by Kendrag33 on December 20, 2022 at 2:51am

Can anyone explain what this is n why it happens? I’ve only really noticed it w questionable dealers/graphs and had assumed that’s what “they” meant online about auto pen; just assumed it was a more sophisticated machine that was harder to notice… But what do I know?! Any help out there identifying why this marker goes back over itself in a straight line? Help me understand what it is I’m seeing here; is this natural?

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on December 20, 2022 at 6:22am

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The dark spot at the bottom of the loop? I do not see the line going back over itself. 

Often when a pen changes trajectory, like at the bottom of a loop, it may drop a blob of ink. That may be what the darker spots are.

If I could give some advice... I think you may be overthinking it. The vast majority of the time, you will not need super magnification to identify fakes. Slowness, tracing and touchups can be seen with the naked eye. In fact, high magnification often amplifies the slightest glitch or ink blob and you'll end up chasing ghosts on perfectly authentic autographs. 

Permalink Reply by Rich on December 20, 2022 at 7:01am

Probably worth adding that holding TPA certed graphs as the gold standard is seriously problematic. And that's probably about the gentlest way I could put it.

Permalink Reply by Kendrag33 on December 20, 2022 at 8:37am

I believe you’re absolutely 100% right when u say I’m overthinking things… I feel stupid being duped and now I’m trying to overcompensate! Like I had found some undiscovered technique professionals had missed… I appreciate the reality check… I’m just going to have to wait to have the level of expertise I thought I might gain here with a few strokes of a keypad! The nativity of a beginner! Needless to say I have lots to learn?

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