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Permalink Reply by Thingfish on November 10, 2011 at 8:36am

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on November 10, 2011 at 12:33pm

In my opinion, it isn't authentic. The "m" appears too pointed at the top, especially the second hump. I've seen a couple of Jim signatures in which the top of the "m" looks somewhat pointed, but not to that degree. I've never seen the first "r" written that way. It looks too rounded at the top. The top half of the "s" also looks unusual in how curved it is. Sorry.

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Permalink Reply by Thingfish on November 10, 2011 at 1:00pm

Thanks for the feedback. I do know its old and that is came from a friends father who was a longtime collector and he had begun his collection long before the hobby became big business. The collection was impressive. I talked him into selling it to me because I am a Doors fan.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on November 10, 2011 at 2:09pm

Interesting. There are at least a couple of other members here who are very familiar with his signature, so hopefully they will weigh in with their opinions.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 10, 2011 at 2:36pm

sorry but IMHO this is not authentic

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Permalink Reply by Josh Board on November 11, 2011 at 12:12am

The Doors are my favorite band, and I've seen thousands of Morrison signatures (95% fake, 5% real ones).

This is a fake, but it's one of the best fakes you'll ever see. Now, this might not make sense, but...here's my reason for believing this.

It looks EXACTLY like a Morrison signature, except for one thing. It's to nicely done. Jim had the signature of a 5th grader. All the letters, to me, are done perfectly. Usually the J wasn't as sharp, but sometimes it was. All the other sections were good (spacing between the letters, the style, etc). Yet, it looks too neat.

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Permalink Reply by Juha Kakkuri on November 11, 2011 at 5:00am

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Permalink Reply by Gordon O'Steen on November 11, 2011 at 5:57am

I went to Roger Epperson's website and compared Thingfish's posted signature to the three examples that Roger has (two checks and a piece of paper).  So, since I am a non-expert, I have to ask the question.  How in the heck can you tell it's a forgery?  I am not at all doubting anyone's opinion or reasoning but I am just curious how someone can duplicate a signature that looks this good. 

I am sure most of us have at one time or another made the attempt at replicating a signature (a scientific test of sorts), just to see how easy or difficult it would be to do.  I can't even come close to some of the most basic signatures, but I have to say that this Morrison looks darn good.  The spacing, angle, size and flow of the lettering is impressive.  Is this done by an artist?  A gifted individual?  Someone that doesn't have a life and just sits for hours, days or years trying to replicate Jim Morrison's signature?

Yes, there are obvious Jim Morrison forgeries flooding the market that even I can tell are fake but a signature such as this one has me scratching my head.

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Permalink Reply by Thingfish on November 11, 2011 at 6:45am

Well if it is a fake then it's the best fake ever, and if it's real then it's one of the best clean legible signatures Mojo Risin signed on a good day when he wasn't drinking. I think there are more tell tale signs than there are not. And I realize how subjective this is and not an exact science unless it's forensically examined.

A lot of the real ones have the 'J' rising above the 'M', The 'O's are consistent, the 'R's are consistent but I have seen them squared off and rounded before on real ones. Same with the 'M's. Some pointed and some more rounded at top. The "J" and the end "N" are consistent with documented ones but some are dipped below the other letters, sometimes not. The fakes I have seen are usually really bad. This one matches too many characteristics to say for certain its fake, in my opinion. Consider the age of the paper and ball point pen sure leaves you wondering if this baby isn't the real deal. Here are some other examples of real ones.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 13, 2011 at 2:11pm

@Thingfish,

Here's something you said above that is commonly said by the forgery industry: 

"And I realize how subjective this is and not an exact science unless it's forensically examined." 

Over 99% of the autographs authenticated by forensic document examiners for resale are fakes or forgeries. I'd be surprised if one out of 500 are genuine. And in any case, autograph authentication isn't an exact science, forensics or not...except when it can prove something couldn't have been signed by who purportedly signed it. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 13, 2011 at 1:26pm

Hi Gordon,

I checked Roger's site but couldn't find the three Jim Morrison examples you said he has. Can you post the links please? Thanks.

Regarding Thingfish's Morrison, people have been making deceptive forgeries for years. Where there's real profit potential there's real incentive. But the autograph in question here is not a good forgery in my opinion...which is why I was able to come to a strong opinion on it.

I'm not an expert, I'm an enthusiast. But even the average collector can learn to identify the most "questionable" autographs.

Sadly, most people don't study up at all, and trust the seller, or the authenticator the seller uses—it's a confidence game. So most buyers end up with worthless garbage.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on November 13, 2011 at 1:54pm

http://autographalerttruth.com/august_2009.html

The third signature is actually from a signed concert program. 

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