Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
Starting this separate thread to track the Liza Minnelli autopen situation.
Signed copies of her new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the previously existing Liza Minnelli thread for more information.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up, exactly on two examples received by the same person:
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in love:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of Liza into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment:
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this and discuss the issue if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Taking the close-up of Lumpy’s “Z” that was reposted under the other thread, and overlaying it with one of the Facebook examples from the other thread.
There are very slight differences (one of the A’s has an opening, a tail might be slightly longer/shorter here or there). But I don’t see how the placement lines up exactly like this at multiple points if by hand.
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Permalink Reply by MrEntertainment1111
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Long-time lurker here who actually signed up to join in this conversation. I agree that she couldn't have done these, but I can't imagine that she somehow has access to a newfangled AI mix-and-match autopen. Something is definitely off, though. And they do all seem to be the same hand. Secretarial seems like a good likelihood.
Here's my copy, from Waterstones.
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IMG_20260310_114125 (1).jpg, 342 KB -
IMG_20260310_114059.jpg, 2 MB
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Hi JG, glad you joined and thanks for posting your examples. Yeah, I’m sort of at a loss of what to think on this. I’ve seen evidence to suggest mechanical involvement, but also not ruling out some sort of secretarial involvement. I think it’s clear though that she did not sign these.
I took your example and compared it with one that was posted in the Facebook group on the original thread.
-As I first start overlaying, notice the close overlap on the word “Love”. It’s not exact but close- Not enough to be definitive, but certainly concerning.
-Then I start to overlap the Z’s. Notice how the top loop of the L in “Liza” overlaps nicely at the same time that the “I” starts to line up (including the dot), along with the Zs and the As falling into place. It just seems really odd but obviously, the rest of it is not falling into place.
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Ok, I think this shows the issue pretty well. I took a close-up of the consistent elements in JG’s signature and a close up of the one from Facebook. Here is an overlay of that.
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. Yes the “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance. There’s just no way.
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Yeah, those aren't secretarial, the spacing and consistency of the overlapping parts are much to uniform imo. I posted a silly little article about AI autopens over 2 years ago, the article itself wasn't anything significant but I figured it was just a matter of time before the autopens would become tougher to detect. Of course other members have vastly more experience so what do I know, other than those aren't secretarial "signatures."
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ai-can-now-mimic-yo...
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I think I remember you posting that, or at least the subject being brought up before on here. I’ll take another look at that.
Yeah, here is a still shot of the overlay above, showing the Z’s lined up, the top of the smiley face lined up, and the top loop of the L’s lined up closely (I could’ve made that better).
Something caused the “I” to shift over slightly in the example, along with the A.
I think it’s a simple as a bump or someone/something physically manipulating the machine or paper, like was mentioned.
But the bottom loop of the L was changed in size. It still appears consistent between the examples when you resize it. But then the rest doesn’t lineup anymore.
And of course, this could be because they were signed by hand and it’s just a coincidence that things line up here and there (with so many copies being out there). I just don’t know, with so many points lining up that well plus the other examples.
I think really tried to disguise this well, its pretty complicated. I’ve looked at many examples today that I could not get to line up. Granted, I’m picking two at a time randomly but to see something like this makes you wonder:
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Just looking at all the ones on Ebay, they seem too neat, from the width of the pen strokes to the overall spacing of the "signature." Again, I have far, far less experience but none of them look natural when seeing more than a few of them together. These were available almost everywhere and for long periods of time so who knows how many people were ripped off (not including the bookplate Premiere ones ironically).
PS. You're doing the Lord's work here Matt M, much appreciated.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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There is no doubt at this point these are autopen. Scary as hell too the way things are headed. People don't realize they can completely destroy this entire hobby for just temporary profit. Once they are found out, no one will care about autographs anymore. Value will plummet. I've seen things out there previously that are equally scary as well. Was chasing a few sources the last few weeks but ultimately led to dead ends. They are making stupid mistakes though which means they will eventually be caught up.. but where are we all headed?
Jimmy James mentioned the premium autopen machine and it made me search for some videos.. looky what I found. This is shocking but exactly where I expected autopens were headed
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