Authenticity is Everything
Ray Charles signature study (just a start...)
I posted this earlier on another Ray Charles post but everyone got sucked into another matter.
I took two signed contract signatures as well as a 1988 signed 5x6 photo from Ray Charles Enterprises. We all know the full name cursive signatures are surely not real and I have seen dozens of these 5x6 photos of Ray signed with the fake full name signature. But this one, is different then the rest, the letter that came with it from Ray Charles's office states that they are sorry for running out the larger versions so please accept this smaller one instead. Is this Ray's actual signature? His real signature? I mean, it's on several contracts I have seen over the years and to me, it's looks like a blind mans interpretation of "Ray Charles". I personally feel Ray could sign more then block letters, he wasn't born blind and surely he could write some, or at least draw or doodle and I am sure he had at least seen writing so unlike Stevie Wonder he had a clue what writing even was and how it looked so I feel he could have taught himself over the years. idk, if you post that these are from a helper can you please post who signed his name like this, and also how you are sure of this? Thanks, and if someone could get Roger Epperson involved that would be great to try to work together and put together a solid Ray Charles signature (or lack there of) study.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Phil Spilsbury on
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Paul's recollections are quite sharp on most of the autographs we are collating. Remember these were big memories. My mother worked from 1956-early 1960's at the TV Studios in Birmingham where Paul got a lot of his autographs from and her recollections of all the stars she met over that time are still sharp today also, why wouldn't they be?. As for the number of autographs, they didn't specially ask for two but that's how many he did for them. What they actually did was carry around large bundles of pictures to get signed for each of the performers they were setting out to meet that day. In some cases they got far more than ten and were actually quite pushy and got as many as they could get away with. When they met the Beatles they got dozens. So blind or not they would have kept asking until he stopped. Sometimes they would also ask for mementos as well as autographs. One on occasion they asked Matt Monro for a memento and he gave them both (at 14 years old) a cigarette each - not what they were hoping for. As for whether it was nigh-on impossible for Ray Charles to sign those autographs the fact is he did them. This not based on opinion this is based on the memories of someone who stood in front of him and met and talked to him, everything else is opinions. In terms of star appeal, Paul said that this one stood out as it was from a massive American star and he was a bit star stuck. On the flip side he was back stage with the Beatles in 1962 in Birmingham when they were pretty much unknown here. He followed a lot of bands so he'd heard of them from the "Love Me Do" single but they only attracted 30 odd people to the gig. Paul and his friend got dozens of autographs from them and McCartney asked them to stay for the soundcheck. They declined, they were again an unknown band with one hit single and they had their autographs and that was enough so they declined. Likewise he met the Rolling Stones on their first national tour when they were bottom of the bill and Paul and his friend met them alone in the afternoon when they arrived at the venue and Jagger asked them if they knew any good local bookshops. Paul said yes and took them to a good one on Corporation Street. When they got their Jagger asked them if they wanted to stay and hang around with the band and then walk back to the venue - they declined, again an very unknown London band then! and they wanted to get back to the venue to get Little Richard and Bo Diddley's autographs - they were the stars! His memories are razor sharp which is why we are collating all these and all the stories for a possible book release. The one thing i can guarantee is that you will have seen at least two authentic Ray Charles autographs in your life time and those are the two I've posted.
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Note I'm not really looking for authenticity review on mine as these were not bought at a flea market or off any 3rd party. These are from a personally collected collection of hand-written face-to-face autographs. So I know the authenticity of the autographs and their stories. I'm just collating the autographs and stories for the owner both for a limited sale of some duplicates and for a possible book. I just thought you might find them useful as a point of reference for those who have got questions marks over the background of autographs they've bought.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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They are useful, Phil. There are four types of Ray Charles autographs that aren't outright forgeries:
- The style from signed photo in the book, plus Eva the Pug's, mine, the 2 in the magazine article provided by Rolf Ramsier, the one by the reader from Minn. in the magazine article, and there's one more that I don't have permission to post yet.
- Ones that look like polished versions of the ones above, from the same general time period.
- Ones like Tomi's, which he said an assistant guided Ray's hand. There's a Rolling Stone magazine signed in the early '70s that looks very similar to that, which parts of are also in that magazine article. He said someone guided Ray's hand, but this is the first time someone had the same story, and the autographs look similar.
- Then purely secretarial ones, most signed by Vernon Troupe, his long-time assistant. You find them on contracts and on brail magazines. Vernon gave me a Playboy with one of those on it. That's part of funny story I'll tell sometime.
The question is, why did he sign the first ones so crudely but sign ones like yours with a lot of polish?
Here are a couple secretarially signed contracts:
- The style from signed photo in the book, plus Eva the Pug's, mine, the 2 in the magazine article provided by Rolf Ramsier, the one by the reader from Minn. in the magazine article, and there's one more that I don't have permission to post yet.
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I'm personally no autograph expert Steve so I'd never give an opinion on anyone else's autographs. What i can say on the ones I'm collating are that they are from the personal experiences of the owner of the ones I've posted and his experience of meeting Ray Charles rather than a bought autograph. My personal expertise is in the live UK music scene through various periods including this one of the early 1960's. I would only be guessing if i was to try and explain (assuming all the others are authentic) why there may be differences other than that he was blind and may have been signing them on different services below. What I will say is that when Paul met him there was only 4 of them there so he wasn't doing them in any sort of rushed manner with lots of fans around them. He was just there at the stage door with his manager or assistant with two excited English boys in front of them and he took the time to sign multiple autographs for them and chat to them.
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Just had a chat with Paul about the question above on the number of autographs he got from Ray Charles. Paul and his friend used to ask for a lot of autographs and would get as many as they could get away with usually, So it was usually limited either by the patience of the star or the number of pictures they had with them or the number of other people waiting. They would quite often go to venues quite early or the hotels they were staying at so they would be the only ones there. In the case of some stars they would get an awful lot like when they got dozens off the Beatles at the 1962 meet they had with them and a few more when he met them in March and June of 1963. Some artists didn't mind and some like Adam Faith and Lesley Gore invited them back stage and sat them down whilst they signed the autographs and chatted to them. In the case of Ray Charles, Paul has just told me he wasn't finding it easy to do the autographs and was going quite slowly so they didn't push him beyond two each. They met a lot of people back then but Ray Charles was really one of the special ones.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Stumpel on
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That's Ray Charles Offenberg, "the other Ray Charles".
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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:...These are from a personally collected collection of hand-written face-to-face autographs. So I know the authenticity of the autographs and their stories...."
Nope. Simple stamp.
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Since someone asked me about it, my Ray Charles is in RR this month, the auction closing tomorrow.
It's the one signed for Donna Marie Hayes in 1961. I made a donation to a charity she supports for it, back in 2014. She wanted to raise a certain amount for the charity, set the number, and I thought about it and said yes.
There's a video of her talking about getting it in the listing.
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Just had a look as was interested in the price estimate as i think we will sell one of ours. RR have put on an estimate of $5000 on yours. My main unassisted Ray is in an NME end of year magazine with 50+ other autographs from stars throughout 1963. Out of interest I sent that one over to Julien's to take a look at as I was trying to work out a price and wondered what they thought. Darren valued it at $200 !!! You can read what you wish into their estimate but I'd say it sticks a question mark on them
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It's hard to put a price on it. This is the first one they have offered for sale as far back as I've been able to check, and it has living provenance: a video interview from the lady who got it when she was Miss Cupertino, Calif. in 1961-2.
It has the same characteristics as the signed photo in the book by Ray's European manager, too.
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It was also was the first one Epperson ever approved, but I don't know if he approved any since.
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I don't really mix in autograph hunter circles so i don't really know who Roger is.
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