Note:  11/3/2011  THREAD RULEs;

1. If You are gonna post a picture in this Thread then PLEASE leave it POSTED.  When there is commentary for it or comparisons & then removed the Thread overall has a problem and many, including me, don't know what the heck someone is/was talking about.  If it's a personally owned one then put a watermark on it if that's a worry.  But DON"T Delete.  I do from time to time copy them just in case but now always" . 11/3/2011

2. If you are posting an item from an "auction" site (ebay etc...) then pls post the actual picture, and then a link to it along with the "auction" or source site.  Links become dated and items disappear for a variety of reasons (12/4/2011)

As one wanders around the WWW on auction sites or blogs it is inevitable that the "secretarials" verbiage will arise.  There are many breakout discussions (see a partial list below that hopefully, I captured the greater majority of threads) and in typical fashion we deviate on many threads (which I have not captured) and throw in a secretarial here & there.

Many times the secretarials focus on the high end selling items as opposed to the mid level ones e.g. The Honeymooners.  Of course, the secretarials differ, at least in verbiage, to the Clubhouse, AutoPen or outright forgeries (there are lots of good threads on) but that is not for this discussion.

But back to the midlevel ones like Roy & Dale Evans,  Barbara Striesand,  Mary Tyler Moore or Tony Curtis to mention a few.   I will add 3 pictures of authentic ones (there may be variations) for the latter three but don't have the secretarials for a side by side (which I like to see as it provides a good visual).  Anyone have some?  So at the risk of biting off too much (if an area takes off, perhaps I can create a breakout thread for it) what are OTHER KNOWN Secretarials and their Authentic ones and why Secretarials? 


for reference only;   Charlton Heston   psa/dna  Sonny Listion aka Roster masacree sinatra, Sammy Dave, Gregory Peck & Glen Ford
Then we have the unfortunate masacree Vanderhoven Threads;
Montgomery Clift;

Tags: fakes, secretarials

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I tend to agree with you and lean toward secretarial based on the page 1 examples.  If you look at the ones on the 1st page you see the 1st & 4th one as the ones considered authentic.  Then when looking at the variation (which has R&R on the fence) ones of 3rd & 6th one - one has a hook mary but they both have a similar M (non looped).   Forget about the autograph store forgery.


Great thread by all!  Based on this, is anything thru the mail real?  Years ago, pre-Ebay perhaps?

The J Edgar Hoover link seems to be broken. Does anyone happen to know where it might be? Thanks!

The usual...

From PSA facts page...there are several...



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