Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on May 6, 2015 at 9:11pm

You're welcome. "Go to man"? That's nice, but I don't think so. There are several members here who are very good with Beatles autographs, including Terrier. 

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on May 6, 2015 at 9:55pm

To answer Paul's original question re International Autograph Auctions, I have had dealings with Richard Davies who runs it. He used to authenticate for Trevor Vennett-Smith in the UK when TVS auctioned autographs. I think IAA more or less took on the TVS autograph side when they decided to concentrate on other things- IAA's catalogues have a very similar feel to those of TVS.

I don't think Richard is the world's best authority on Beatles autographs. I know of at least two examples sold through TVS that have been deemed not authentic on ebay or here (unfortunately I own one of of them but fortunately I missed out on the other when TVS sold it). What I don't know is whether Richard actually authenticated those particular examples before TVS sold them but I think he did based on what TVS told me at the time.

I also think Richard is an honest guy. Some of you may remember that IAA withdrew a Bruce Lee autograph recently when it received negative feedback on this forum (as being a traced example).  

When you think about it, it is quite frightening how little regulation there is in the autograph business generally and the autograph auction business in particular. Any Tom, Dick and Harry can set up a fancy web-site and start selling. Only forums like this really keep things in check - to some extent at least. 

When I bought my dud back in 1999 the auction house wasn't on the internet so I couldn't get it checked out on here before bidding  - if this site even existed at the time.  

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Permalink Reply by Edward Siebert on May 6, 2015 at 10:43pm

I don't think any of the three in the main post example look good. The many problems in the George example have been noted, like the cross-cutting H, no loops on the r's or s in the last name,and I think the G in his first name is awful. But the Ringo is off too...the t in his last name is always higher than the S. and the Paul example has a rightward slant that alot of the forgeries of that time have..his real examples, from then and onward, are straight up and down, no rightward slant in the writing.

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on May 6, 2015 at 11:00pm

I'm always glad when people explain why they think something isn't real unless it is really a "no brainer". Having said that, there are always exceptions to rules - for example, if you look at two of terrier's examples the "S" is higher than the "t" in "Starr".

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Permalink Reply by spaceman on May 6, 2015 at 11:46pm

I consider these to be authentic.

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Permalink Reply by RobTwoRs on May 7, 2015 at 2:17am

Everyone have a look at what it's signed on...
The three signatures are on a vintage blue printed oblong 12mo ticket for The Davis Cup Semi-Final Round European Zone tennis matches played at Bristol Lawn Tennis Club on Thursday, 18th July 1963 Even Mccartney has added an extra 'P' on the bottom of where he has even gone to sign twice. The item in my opinion authenticates itself because of what's it signed on suggesting the Beatles attended the tennis matches that day to watch...

especially when tracks UK.. world renowned Beatles experts have offered to buy this.. They don't offer to buy unless they know the score there right up their with the best.. if not the best on Beatles. These are without doubt authentic

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on May 7, 2015 at 2:39am

Wouldn't there be some photos of them at such a renowned tennis match? I couldn't see anything with a quick Google.

The auction house description notes that they played Weston-super Mare (near Bristol) in July 1963. Unfortunately this ticket is dated four days before the first WSM gig. I doubt they would be hanging around Bristol for four days before playing.

What is certainly possible is that the recipient of the autographs had attended the tennis and happened to have this in his or her pocket when he or she met the Boys. 

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Permalink Reply by Paul on May 7, 2015 at 2:43am

Steve said it well on the last page. That's kind of a rule of thumb.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on May 7, 2015 at 4:08am

I agree with Steve's statement.  frankly, I wouldn't want these if someone gave them to me.  why would Pau try to sign it twice?  as far as Tracks wanting to buy these, they usually sell high quality items.  if I saw this on their website, I would be surprised. but then again, I am surprised with what I see every day.  but I think saying these are "without a doubt" authentic, is stretching it a little.  as far as where the Beatles were on July 18, 1963, 

The Beatles recorded Money on July 18, 1963, in seven takes, including a piano edit piece, John performing the raucous vocal.

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on May 7, 2015 at 4:48am

I forgot to ask Rob where he got the information that Tracks wanted to buy this. I don't see it mentioned anywhere else.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on May 7, 2015 at 8:47am

Like you when Mr. Jones asked me by email about it one of my key concerns (since I know next to nothing about Beatles autographs themselves) was the why would Paul try to sign twice? Since then Mr. Epperson and Mr. Cornthwaite have both weighed in that they are good I am sure they are. Upon reflection I think an explanation for the extra "P" is that this was likely passed around among the three, or four if John was there. The ticket then got passed back to Paul again, and he logically went to the blank area started then saw he already signed. I think that would explain the odd "P." We will never know for certain but in my mind that is the most logical explanation.

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Permalink Reply by RobTwoRs on May 7, 2015 at 4:48am

Terrier,
There's no need to be aggressive Paul posted a discussion on here because he asked members for their opinions on the authenticity of this item.. which he will tell you himself that I insisted he should do.. He wants people's opinions on the authenticity of the item! He didn't ask for your opinion on whether you would want these personally..

The end of the day I'm an honest collector I bought these from IAA Auctions which are a specialist autograph auctions not just some any auction house down the road. Tracks UK did offer to buy these I have proof of this via email so in terms of authenticity I believe them to be authentic which is why I bought them obviously. In my opinion Tracks UK are experts when it comes to Beatles they must believe them to be authentic otherwise they would not of offered to buy the set right?

Paul is interested in the set.. I have been not but truthful and dead honest and that goes for anyone who bought from me as that's the way buisness should be done in my opinion.

I can't do any more as a collector or when selling items than I already have done. I have sent the set to roger epperson for authentication via email anyway so this can be wrapped up.. If it's a positive response case dismissed if it's a negative response I will be going back to where I bought these from as all I've done through the years of collecting is be careful and would be wanting my hard earned money back.

As for your response about where the Beatles were on what day.. Slyvia the lady that met these may have had that ticket in her pocket and given it to the 3 members of the Beatles as it may of been the only thing she had for them to sign because she went to the tennis??

Anyways,
I love this site I'm on here to help people and be helped I don't have any time to get involved in spats have enough of that from the misses at home haha.

All the best,
Rob

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