Mass Resignations, Lives Threatened as AFTAL is Hijacked During Behind the Scenes Forgery Investigation

Formed with the stated goal of stamping out fake autographs, AFTAL, the Autograph Fair Trade Alliance, attracted many of UK's and Europe's most reputable dealers as members. But while the vast majority of AFTAL dealers lived its stated goal, including a recognized expert used by law enforcement to testify against the forgery industry, AFTAL's two primary founders, Dominic Manning and Marc Mclennan, used it as cover to sell and authenticate thousands of forgeries. Manning has seized control of the organization after an AFTAL steering committee found that he sold hundreds of fake Michael Jackson autographs he claimed to have gotten in person. And like a mansion built on quicksand, AFTAL is crumbling.

As the legally listed head of AFTAL, Manning, owner of Behind the Scenes Autographs, disbanded the steering committee last week that was formed in December by boardmember Garry King after Manning and another boardmember were forced to resign. Manning then reportedly had AFTAL's lawyer slap a suppression order (gag order) on the former members of the committee, forbidding them to talk publicly about Manning's actions or their determination that the Michael Jacksons Manning sold were forgeries.

In the UK, even revealing that you are under a suppression order can have you held in contempt of court, so little information about it has come out and no public documents appear to be available. But the sudden silence of former steering members who used to speak to me confirms its existence in my mind.

Events have taken a violent turn. Several autograph dealers have reportedly been threatened by Manning or the source of the forgeries, Adrian Longden, and police reports have been filed. At least one victim is in fear of his life.

Roughly a third of AFTAL members have resigned or are in the process of doing so, and many more are anticipated to resign as they hear about the scandal. 

Stay tuned for more. Autograph Magazine is preparing a list of current and former AFTAL dealers considered reputable. Please message me if you would like to be considered for this list.

For more details on AFTAL's actions and the Dominic Manning/Adrian Longden forgeries, read the following Autograph Magazine Live! discussions:

Views: 11988

Comment by Garry King on February 5, 2013 at 12:15pm

Let me just make a few things clear again. I have never purchased anything from Adrian, and please do not keep making these suggestions that my stock keeps being called into question, or that 'a great many of your items are not good' as this is simply incorrect and grossly misleading and would easily be considered a possible legal action here in the UK. I think out of over 2000 listed at the time, about ten items were suggested as being possible Adrian forgeries. That is a very samll % by anyones calculations.

Again, i have never purchased a single item from Adrian, don't know him, never met him, and have only spoken to him once when he called me to try and convince me he was as honest as the day is long.

I have purchased some items from Dominic in the past, but it was a very small percentage of my inventory, and any items that came from Dominic when all this started where immmediatly withdrawn from sale and remain here awaiting a refund from Dominic.  

I recall a Charlton Heston secretarial that should never have been on there at all, as this should have been removed when we all heard the truth about those, and a Kylie, which was simply a poor Kylie, and a Clint Eastwood, neither of which came from Dominic. 

It is 100% certain that there was a threat against another dealer, no doubt about that whatsoever. As for being a dealer and offering an authentication service, is that not what Roger Epperson does now and has done for a long time? i do understand why some might see this as some kind of conflict of interest but i do not. Most of what i do in that area is in fact yes/no opinions on items on ebay, which can surely only be a good thing, and i do not authenticate everything for anybody. If i find that i cannot give an answer that i could prove to be correct 'beyond reasonable doubt' then i do not do it.

I offered a basic autograph course as a way of ensuring that any dealer or collector could learn how to spot the basic signs of forgery, autopens, printed signatures etc, it was not an authentication course, but part one of a course that was leading to them being able to learn about the correct way to authenticate a signature, and i am sure that one of the 70 plus people will confirm that. The course came about simply because we wanted our dealers to become better dealers, and by helping them to help themselves, they in turn could educate their own customers. It has proved to be a very usefull course, and the fact that over 70 plus people have taken it must say something. 

These comments that some make about AFTAL in general are doing a great deal of harm to this entire business, and as i have also said before, the only people who will benefit from wrecking AFTAL or indeed any similar organisation (who is next?) are the forgers and other low life who abound within this business. I have spent far too much of my time in the UK helping to close some of these people down, and as a result made a few enemies.  Now as a result of much of this crap that has been written on here, i am both unwilling and unable to do any more similar work, so the criminla wins again.

There is nothing going on between Steve and myslef, no collusion, no back handers, no nothing, we just both keep in touch and swap stories on forgers, and again for the record, i have never purchased anything from Steve or his company.

Comment by shawn on February 5, 2013 at 12:17pm
Carl. That's very interesting. I've been checking out this site for well over a month now and all I see is that people keep asking for him to come back. And Steve just blasts it with some sort of silliness. I know that he (Mike) has taken out a lot of his own comments out of the site, so I really can not comment as to how much help/hurt that he has put down on this site.
But I can personally attest to his absolute knowledge and the way this whole site is run and the way EVERYONE disrespects each other constantly. To poke at what Mike may have said without looking at how EVERY PERSON treats one another on this site has got to be ridiculous.
I've known Mike for a very long time, and his brash, arrogant ways have rubbed many a person the wrong way. I know it for a fact. But at the same time, I don't see him not being informative or intelligent in any way. I can see how many others jump off on a rant after someone questions an item right here, time after time after time. I don't see a lot of people acting in any sort of intelligent way all along this site.
I'm not here to defend Mike, we have our own personal history. But we did go to college together too. So, I've known him a very long time. And I don't see where anyone here can throw stone at him. You all attack each other and constantly backtrack the words you have already said (not everyone, but quite a few of you). Many people here make statements and when backed into a corner about your mistake, you still fight for your own point of view. But it just seems that more of you want him around than don't. And it seems Steve has taken yet another vendetta against someone and just takes his ball and goes home. It is his site, but at the end of the day, he has truly taken it out of his own hands and given it to the people. Many of those people have lots of knowledge and quite a few of them are looking for knowledge. In a huge way, I can help too. But I sold off my collection a few years ago (except for the truly likeable items i have) to pay for some more school and to move on in life. So I don't have the scans and pictures readily available to back up anything that I say.
But Mike told me that this was a GOOD site. That there are some fairly knowledgeable people in here doing good things. Again, I'm not here to defend him. I'm just trying to get people back to the task at hand. Fighting the forgery problem.
That being said, and the reason why I even brought Mike up is because all these problems with Garry King's site and Steve's constant defense of that site and that person... Makes both of them look like a complete criminal. Garry seems to handled it the best that he can by pulling problem items. Which is great AND a step in the right direction. But only a step. I find it weird that at some point, he used an entire comittee to say that his stuff was authentic ALL OF IT. When it was pointed out that some of it wasn't (this was NOT from Mike by the way). Steve took it upon himself to pull Mike, when he was helping people point out the other Autografica items that were questionable, off the site completely. It looked as though it was only to keep Mike from unraveling Garry before Garry had a chance to change his items out. But it was highly funny that Mike was gone and the Garry thing stuck around anyway. Which kind of does mean that Mike really isn't needed. That people can make these assertations on their own.
Take what you will from it. I just think it's funny that Mike can't defend himself for the simple fact that he exposes Steve and his unknowing nature. Steve shouldn't use this site for his personal vendettas. He should be trying to take in all expert advice into a coherant, helpful website. Which I believe that it is. You do have the choice to not read what anyone says. You can filter in your own opinions with what you do read.
Comment by shawn on February 5, 2013 at 12:38pm
@ Garry. Thanks for clearing some of that up. So now, part two of that question. Do you know exactly how many items were obtained from Dominic?

And now that we can cross off the question of if any of your items came from Steve Cyrkin. Why does Steve advocate you without question? Even when items come into question, Steve will defend it blankly as "it comes from Garry King, it has to be good." when to any other dealer, a comment can be made "well, he must've gotten a bad batch from a dealer."
No offense, but if I were a purchaser, and I saw just a few forged items (or even items that I was uncomfortable with) I wouldn't even consider a single purchase any longer. No if and's or buts. I wouldn't go on a website and ask if one of their products looked good or bad, I just wouldn't bother. Now, I know that doesn't happen for everyone as they don't have the knowledge I or many other people have acquired. BUT, we also make mistakes too. A number of really reliable people have been marked as forgers simple because, "I heard it from so and so.." So, in essence, just about every person who gets autographs in the street themselves and sells them, has been labeled a forger from time to time.
But when they put their name and face on a company, that all changes because now Average Joe out there has heard it to. And with all the name calling and backbiting all over this site, and ANL and a couple of other places, this all just becomes noise. Nothing real comes out of it.

I think what I am really trying to say is because YOU have offered Authentication classes, and you opine on things (whether you get paid or not) you have to also put yourself ABOVE reproach. You have to put in EXTRA EFFORT to ensure that every part of your inventory is authentic. You cannot have any item put into question, much less multiple items that MANY people call into question. Or else YOU become the problem and not the solution and YOU are the one they are calling out. Look, the criminals ARE winning. And maybe you were helping. But do you realize what this looks like to the rest of us? Do you see it? One item bad makes it look like YOU are the criminal. And with all the forger baiters out there, their noise is a little louder than yours (or this site). Your reputation is forever damaged. It sucks, but that is what has happened. Doesn't matter where you got it from. And by coming here defending your stance (the first couple of posts) just smells rotten as at that time, you didn't pull those items until AFTER you knew their history.
I hope that made sense.
Comment by Rich on February 5, 2013 at 12:40pm

I feel like such a buzzkill with some of my questions, but I'm just curious:  Does Marc and/or Dominic actually own the AFTAL organization?  I've never really understood AFTAL's structure, and noticed that there were some references to stock holders. 

Comment by Garry King on February 5, 2013 at 12:40pm

"He should be trying to take in all expert advice into a coherant, helpful website. Which I believe that it is" I agree totally with that statement, but then you say "You do have the choice to not read what anyone says" that is as maybe, but when people like yourselfr make statements that are untrue or simply twisted away from the truth, you are making a statement of fact that can be seen by anyone at any time, This is not simply a conversation between you and me, but you telling the whole world incorrect assumptions and guesses that are often simply nothing less than plain and simple lies, but can and will be seen by others as fact, and therfore can affect min eor other dealers business.

Lest look at how many known dealers actually post on here? i can only count myslef and the other AFTAL dealers that have had fingers pointed  at as either part of a forgery ring or similar! I speak with UK and US dealers every day of the week, and evrry one of them says the same things. "i might read it, but i certainly would never post on it" and why? because they know that sooner or later some smart ass will come on and post some comment about a suspect item, and then wait for a few others to jump in and destroy them.

This kind of thing happens on almost every forum, and that is why most sensible people avoid them.     

     

Comment by Garry King on February 5, 2013 at 1:03pm

Shawn, no, much of what you say does not make sense, so i am not going to even try.  

"you have to also put yourself ABOVE reproach" Take a good look in the mirror mate, ever made a mistake, oh, you havn't, well done you. Every single dealer you know will have made a mistake at some point, so don't go on fooling yourself that the ones you might buy from are perfect, because they are not. That may annoy some, but if they are honest, they will say, yes, i have made some mistakes, after all we are all human.

When this started i said that dealers have to build a trust with one another, without that trust, we cannot do any business. That is why you buy from dealers you trust, but do you? Ask yourself how mnay times you have bought something and then asked someone else for an opinion about it? Who do you then believe. My view is that every collector, and i assuming that you are a collector, should learn to be able to spot all the usual stuff, the printed, the facsimile etc, but how many actaully try and learn about autographs and how to authenticate? i tell you, very few indeed.

I bought those Jackson items from Dominic because i trusted him, excatly the same reason why every other dealer did, and every collector as well. Yes, if i had spent a couple of hours on them authenticating them and picking up the 14 or so reference points that i have now done, then no i would not have bought them.

I am unable to tell you exactly how many items i purchased from Dominic Manning, but i can tell you that almost all of them are sitting here in a seperate folder marked return to Dom! 

Rich. As far as i am aware, there are three Directors of AFTAL and if you want to know the full details, you can simply go to Companies house here in the UK (its all online) and you can check these deatils out for yourself. And once again, i have not nor ever been an owner, director or share holder of AFTAL. I was a board member with at varying times up to 8 other AFTAL dealers. 

I don't think Steve always defends me at all, in fact if he did, and we had something going on, why on earth would he allow so many people to publish so much crap about me?

 

  

Comment by Rich on February 5, 2013 at 1:12pm

Gary, thanks.  It suddenly occurred to me that I really never understood anything of how organizations like UACC or AFTAL were structured and run.

Comment by Garry King on February 5, 2013 at 1:17pm

One last correction before i go to bed "Roughly a third of AFTAL members have resigned" thsi is simply incorrect, and i think has been based on the number system used on the AFTAL dealers list. But some of those numbers were either not used or had belonged to dealers that had perhaps retired or been removed from AFTAL.

I think some people are also under the misaprehension that because AFTAL has shareholders etc, that it is somehow underhand or wrong, and i can understand why some may see it that way. But, and i do not claim to be an expert in company law, i think the law regarding companies in the UK is not the same as that in the USA, but the only legal way to create AFTAL and at the same time protect it and its members from the possibilty of legal action etc, is to create and operate it as a limited company.

I do know that it could not have operated as a charity or similar, so i asume a limted comany it had to be. I think it is easier to do that in the USA.

Comment by Garry King on February 5, 2013 at 1:44pm

Rich, i don't think you are the only one! Up until recently neither did i !!

I am not suggesting this at all, but if you look at the UACC, PADA or any other similar Association, you will see somehting similar, and you could easily make the same assumptions about those.

My position at AFTAL, i won't say within it, ended some time ago, and i was asked very simply to form a commitee to try and unravel what went wrong and how we could move AFTAL forward. It would have been very easy for me to walk away, but i did not, because i truly believe that this business is better off with an AFTAL in one form or another than without it.

So first i had to pull together half a dozen or so people that were known and trusted to both myslef and others within the business. That is not as easy as it may seem, but with some help from others it happened. Do you really think that those 6 other people would have come on baord if they thought that any of what has been said on here about me was true?

Those of you who have ever been any any board or committe will know and understand that if you are alone and running something you can do everything your own way. But once you get more than one you have to start to try and accept other peoples points of view and try and understand their opinions, even if you think they are 100% wrong. A compromise always has to be made, and things always take ten times longer than you want or others expect. 

It was very difficult to even arrange a meeting as we live in about a 400 mile radius, but i can honestly say that evey single person on that commitee tried their very hardest to make everything happen, and to get to the bottom of what went wrong etc. Some things we simply had to forget about, such as the god awfull statement that we first sent out. Steve called me about this before i had even got home from the meeting, and asked me who wrote it and why it seemed such gibberish! I explained that it was meant to be the basis of our statement, and was not meantto have been sent out as it was, but the die was cast, and form that moment on we were defending ouselves and AFTAL at the same time.

I thought we had reached a climax last week, when all sorts of things happened, ending the dealer being threatened, and about that i cannot say any more as it is now a Police matter.

Myslef and the rest of the commitee tried to do the best we could, but all the time we had people on here throwing stones, often without any just cause or reason, whilst others plotted other means to destroy AFTAL or sling mud or worse.

If we had not had an AFTAL at all, or the commitee had not pressed as many buttons as it did, do you think we would now be where we are now? I think not. And if AFTAL never returns how do you think the autograph business in the UK will go? It will only allow the forgers to proliferate once again.       

Comment by Carl Ryan on February 5, 2013 at 1:48pm

The fact that AFTAL has shareholders, and that things have happened the way they happened provides a huge incentive for certain people to want this gone. It really does add in a completely different element to this problem. Because it brings in big money and multiple vest interests. And im not speaking to the steering committee here, but instead at the crooks and criminals behind this. When you start adding in stock shares and money coming from many different parties that revolve around how an organization does financially, this becomes a very complex problem. Now knowing that AFTAL has shareholders, it seems obvious that its not just Dominic Manning anymore. No doubt that the parties who are very heavily financially involved are now exerting influence. 

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