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What exactly is this eBay seller doing? Is this considered counterfeiting?

I suggest you review the items for sale by an eBay seller named: presidentialcollectibles

It appears that this seller is using a new 2012 autopen machine and is counterfeiting, ( if that is the correct term?), celebrity autographs. The seller's description states that, "These signatures cannot be found anywhere else", so it is unclear if anyone else is also currently using this autopen device. Thus far, one can purchase a Neil Armstrong, John Lennon, Marilyn Monroe, Bruce Lee, Babe Ruth, or Elvis Presley autopenned ink signature, and according to the seller "provides high quality signature which is an exact replica of the original".

For obvious reasons, I find this 'new autopen machine' quite troubling. Aside from the potential influx of confounding new autotypes, does creating these autotypes represent an issue in intellectual property law? I am not a lawyer, but..................

Should the profits of sales of the 'new autopenned' signatures belong to the estate of the signators?

Examples:

Tags: al capone, autopen, babe ruth, counterfeit, elvis presley, forgeries, machine-signed, marilyn monroe, mike tyson, neil armstrong, More…obama

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Comment by Brandon Mysinger on September 17, 2012 at 3:22am: @presidential.... It's simple, what is occurring in ASIA is ILLEGAL! what you are doing is ETHICIALLY wrong. You are flooding the market with cheap autopen copies of items that will be re-sold for THOUSANDS of dollars.

You don't deserve a chance to "work with eBay" you should be removed from eBay and all future listings discovered of these items should be removed instantly.

This FRAUD is a new spin, but the same old background. Trying to cheapen the hobby and make a quick buck off of signatures that ARE NOT Authentic!

Thankfully, this "state of the art" autopen machine SUCKS. The normal autopen traits are still visible ( more so in my opinion ). Therefore, these will be caught by experts. However, how many people will lose money before that happens? Oh, that's right, it's not your problem it's an "Asian" thing. Awfully funny that the machine touted as the "greatest" autopen machine in the world is supposedly made right here in America. What did you do, ship one to Asia so you could have as many forgeries created without having to worry about those pesky copyright laws?

Comment by Steve Zarelli on September 17, 2012 at 4:13am: What's interesting is that you can send them your pen, ink and items. I wonder how many people are sending them vintage pens, with vintage ink and vintage photos. That concerns me a lot more than a replica Elvis or Marilyn Monroe signature on what is obviously a modern print. The contemporary movie stars on the modern movie poster is going to be a problem too.

Comment by Mike Shepherd on September 17, 2012 at 4:38am: I know that you guys will disagree but I don’t have a problem with someone buying or selling replicas as long as the items are clearly marked. If a seller attempts to pass them off as authentic they should be arrested but if there is a market for it and it is done in a transparent way I don’t really care.

Comment by DB on September 17, 2012 at 6:00am: Mike, that is fundamentally the problem - they seldomly are permanentaly affixed (like replica reprint baseball cards typically are). Then we have the china baseballs most likely coming from a similar source that now have COAs (bogus but a coa) on them and when that won't work they will seek out others who will simply stamp it with a COA. As we well know there are plenty of flea market buyers looking for what they think is a bargain and that takes care of the unwise, not the ones that know what they are doing. As reported earlier, when the item was received there was no indication that the item was an "autopen".

Your right though it has been going on along time and this is just a new wrinkle. I had posted commentary of one "dealer" who also did lots of "charities" and nowhere was there to be found a disclaimer that the item wasn't an original but a reprint. I still wonder about one winner who was the high bidder for a Michael Jordan at $1000.00 if they have yet realized they have a reprint and not an original.

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 17, 2012 at 6:51am: Mike - there are so many bad sellers in this hobby, who is going to arrest them all?

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 17, 2012 at 6:54am: pres coll - do you have a license from CMG to sell the Monroe, Presley, Ruth items?

Comment by Dr. Richard Saffro on September 17, 2012 at 6:55am: These sellers are starting to pop up: Just found another.... check out: sports_buff

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 17, 2012 at 7:32am: The term "Made In China" has taken on a new meaning for autograph collectors :(

Comment by Mike Shepherd on September 17, 2012 at 8:28am: They should be treated like drug dealers Richard. They all can't possibly be arrested but word should hit the street that if a dealer is intentionally selling clearly labeled reprints and claiming that they are authentic there will be consequences. I just don't see a problem with it if it is done honestly and policed seriously. People buy and sell reprints of baseball cards and football cards and replicas of everything from paintings to action figures to lightsabers and other movie props. There is a market for these items because most people can't afford the real thing and would still like to build a personal collection of things that they are interested in. I also believe that this type of a market will only add to the value of authentic signatures since more people will become familiar with the hobby.

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 17, 2012 at 8:34am: Interesting how pres coll and sports_buff have their ads worded in such a similair way.

Signed in marker in the title and then most of the ad is devoted to the virtues of the autopen machine and the wording about the machine is the same in both advertisers ads.

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