Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 8, 2020 at 9:13pm

Joe,

I'm glad you asked for opinions on the Alis you're considering before you buy. I don't think that either of them are real. I would definitely keep looking.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Brown on February 8, 2020 at 9:28pm

I totally agree.  The first one is hideous..  and the second one is a mess..

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 8, 2020 at 10:06pm

Joe,

The best source for Muhammad Ali exemplars is aliautos.net. Do you still want to get opinions from other collectors like you have been, but that is a tremendous resource.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Estillore on February 10, 2020 at 4:15pm

Thanks for this.

Both are actually authenticated by JSA (I hid this fact to get unbiased opinion from the community and just basing on the specimen itself).

Because of this, do you think JSA is not credible for authenticating Ali's?

Also I contacted Shawn from aliautos.net (as suggested by Steve) and for both photos, Shawn said that it is in his opinion that both are authentic.

Would you care to share more detailed inputs to what puts you off on both?

Like how the "M" is written, etc.? Ive had a discussion with Steve Cyrkin (thru PM) and we had a great back and forth on the intricate details of the signatures.

Would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on February 9, 2020 at 7:31am

Shawn from aliautos.net has an email opinion service. He is reliable and accurate in my opinion and I recommend his service. 

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Estillore on February 10, 2020 at 4:22pm

Thanks for this.

I contacted and payed Shawn from aliautos.net fr his quick opinion service and for both photos, Shawn said that it is in his opinion that both are authentic.

Also both are actually authenticated by JSA (I hid this fact to get unbiased opinion from the community and just basing on the specimen itself).

Its very interesting how tricky Ali's autograph is and how we all got different opinions on these. Also how it has a lot of factors such as forgeries, autopens, autos changing as his Parkinson's progresses, etc.

Im actually considering buying one of them because Shawn's quick opinion and the JSA COA to back it up (Shawn's opinion actually weighs more than the JSA COA imo based on his extensive study on aliautos.net).

Cheers and thanks for the healthy discussion! Let me know if you have any more inputs on these new details!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on February 10, 2020 at 4:25pm

If JSA and Shawn both gave them the thumbs up, I’d feel comfortable with them. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve on February 9, 2020 at 10:18am

I agree that both appear fake.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Estillore on February 10, 2020 at 4:26pm

Thanks for this Steve! (Cool how theres 3 Steves that replied to this discussion)

May we know what part or aspect of the signatures put you off on its authenticity?

Just had a great discussion with Steve Cyrkin thru PM on how some letters of the auto were written and how on the blue signature its oddly slanted down.

Would appreciate an input from you also as to why.

Also both are actually authenticated by JSA (I hid this fact to get unbiased opinion from the community and just basing on the specimen itself).

Because of this, do you think JSA isnt that good at authenticating Ali's?

Cheers and thanks for the healthy discussions!

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on February 10, 2020 at 5:18pm

I am surprised that the first one is deemed authentic.  The second one looks fine to me, but the first one is a style I have never seen before.  

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Estillore on February 10, 2020 at 6:02pm

I think so too, its an uncommon style.

Although I have seen 3 similar examples from aliautos.net.

http://www.aliautos.net/examples.html

If you check the 90's autograph section on that page, at the rightmost column, there are 3 similar autos with the "d" from Muhammad connecting to the "A" in Ali.

Closest thing I could find that resembles it at the moment.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on February 10, 2020 at 6:25pm

I still donn’t see it.  The first one here is too smooth and the letters are all rounded, not at all like the Ali’s on shawn’s site.  I just don’t see Ali signing that first one.

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