Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by 5816nick on January 1, 2023 at 10:32am

Yes, as far as i'm aware, you had to return the original Certificate of Authenticity only - and are allowed to keep the print and Castle would send you a full refund and a replacement COA stating an autopenned signature was used. 

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Permalink Reply by Al on January 1, 2023 at 10:41am

Understood, thanks for clearing that up. I thought that only applied to the philosophy of modern bullzhit.

So the guy made money? Well, good for him 

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Permalink Reply by Mark S on January 1, 2023 at 2:00pm

I bet he returned old coa and printed a copy of the same one to try to sell on ebay. 

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Permalink Reply by Dubroni on January 1, 2023 at 1:26pm

Take a look at this piece written by Castle Fine Art advising why a hand signature is so important, and how it can increase the value of an artwork by ten fold....

https://www.castlefineart.com/blog/5-reasons-why-an-artists-signatu...

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Permalink Reply by PFCollector on January 1, 2023 at 1:43pm

That's hilarious especially when they're still selling autopens for the same price. Someone should screenshot that before they take it down. That would be good evidence for a lawsuit. Lol

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Permalink Reply by Marky Molloy on January 4, 2023 at 11:10am

Credit where credit's due... I received refunds into my bank account today from Castle for Retrospectrum prints. The thread title is concerned with 'returns-refunds'. I've got them. Castle has been as good as its word after I had forms and certificates collected for Castle just before Christmas. I haven't received any replacement Certificates of  Autopen Authenticity/Handsigned Inauthenticity (or whatever they'll be called). I'm not looking to sell these prints yet - I still like the artwork. 

I'm still shocked that Castle doesn't seem to have any proof of Dylan signing any/many prints. The most likely contenders for legal action against Castle would surely be concerning the four Asia prints released in 2021 and the six Mondo released in 2020. Both during lockdown. Eugene Monaghan is/was seeking further legal advice over Mondo.

I am aware that to win a civil case the claimer(s) would need to establish the burden of proof - or balance of probabilities - lies in their favour. That is pretty much prove Dylan did not sign them. I'm highly suspicious of the Asia signatures, but also know for now I wouldn't be confident of establishing burden of proof. I've seen no conclusive evidence yet from signature experts (i.e. Jason) who know far more than me.

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Permalink Reply by Eugene Monaghan on January 24, 2023 at 7:45am

Guys, just to give an update on the latest position. I issued a formal ‘Letter before court’ to Washington Green / Castle Galleries on the 03rd January with a request for a response within 14 days. I subsequently arranged a call with Ian Weatherby-Blythe last Thursday and had an open and positive discussion. Essentially Ian has requested some extra time to try to get together the necessary proof required to validate the provenance of the CoA and the signature. This is expected this week but I agreed to give some space before progressing any action and have another call the 1st week of February to assess position, next steps and if necessary any mutual agreed remedy options before going to court.

I have had some outline detail on the evidence that has been shared so far but will wait until I get the formal response, and any supporting information supplied before I post a full update.

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Permalink Reply by Tom B on January 24, 2023 at 8:18am

Thank you and good luck.

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Permalink Reply by Marky Molloy on January 27, 2023 at 1:10am

Good luck again. Your polite, reasonable approach will hopefully pay off. I'm intrigued if he is just trying to get some proof to show just your own Mondo print has Dylan's real signature or is trying to prove the whole 2020 Mondo set does. Or more sets. I'm still sceptical about proof because it shouldn't take long to reveal it if it's already there. Look forward to the update. 

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Permalink Reply by Eugene Monaghan on January 30, 2023 at 11:07am

Update from Ian Weatherby-Blythe reference the formal pre court letter request for proof to support the provenance for the Mondo Scripto 2020 series CoA’s issued by Washington Green / Castle Galleries:

“I refer to our correspondence and recent phone call on the matter and confirm we have obtained from Black Buffalo ( Bob Dylan’s Art company ) the information you requested in relation to the Dylan prints you own.

The details are as follows:

• It Ain’t Me Babe (Mondo Scripto 2020)
• I Want You (Mondo Scripto 2020)

1. Both prints Signed by Bob Dylan between August 26, 2019 and September 6, 2019 in Santa Monica, California.
2. Signed in the presence of Jeff Rosen (Black Buffalo Artworks), Esther Light (printmaker), Galia Gev (art handler), Callie Gladman (Black Buffalo Artworks).
3. Delivered to Castle Galleries Ltd in Birmingham, UK in September 2020
4. Released for sale by Castle Galleries during October 2020.

Please note that the time windows for the signing process relate to the fact that not all prints would be signed by Mr Dylan in one sitting on the same day, but this would often take place over several days or weeks depending on his schedule, that of those in attendance and the number of prints to be signed. 

I trust the information provided sufficiently responds to your requests for information and satisfies your concerns and I hope you can now fully enjoy the great Dylan art you own. As always, we are at your service should you need anything else.”

Update also received and shared by Ian from Black Buffalo on the question and uncertainty raised by the marked change in style of Bob Dylan’s signature on artwork from around 2018 and the Mondo Scripto series:

“Dear Ian,

We understand that you have received a few specific inquiries regarding Bob Dylan's varying signature styles from your clients. As Bob Dylan's art company, I am sharing a response Mr. Dylan recently sent to a particular inquiry about differentiations in his signatures over the last few years and through the decades.

"Thank you for your inquiry. Let me explain that my signature has changed a lot over the years you go back to my record albums which have my signature, beginning in 1963 ar thereabouts, you'll see many different variations, depending on the hour, the mood, and the situation of when they were signed. Also, you may or may not know that for a number of years was more interesting for me to sign with my left hand, just to keep the whole experience from becoming stagnant. A performer has many things thrust in front of him to sign and every signature cannot be perfect. That's why mine has changed so many times, especially through the process of signing tens-of-thousands of prints.

There was a big change in my handwriting beginning in the Mondo Scripto' years. After signing my name so many times, it became necessary to come up with a signature that looked good to my eye as well as hanging on a wall as a piece of art. So for a number of years that's been the signature you'll see a lot on any artwork unless of course it changes again."

We trust this fully explains and clarifies the matter.”

Essentially some more information and detail, but no verifiable, independent proof that Castle Galleries can provide, and they have admitted that the signings have not been witnessed and the CoA’s have been issued purely on a trust basis!

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Permalink Reply by Marky Molloy on January 30, 2023 at 12:33pm

Thanks for info. Ian W-B has tried pretty hard for you - and Castle's good name - and probably got as much information as can or will be forthcoming. The underlying Dylan-team case for the 2020 Mondos is that Dylan signed them at a California home just before vertigo hit him.

'No verifiable, independent proof ...' Would Jeff Rosen, Esther Light and so on sign legal statements saying they witnessed him signing any?

So my point above (4 January) about 'burden of proof' is still valid.  In the UK, it obviously relates to the 79 Sale of Goods Act. I suspect an individual claim about potential loss of value for, say, on a £3,500 print (£2,500 lost?) might be viable. I don't know.

Last point: what comes across to me as really unexpected is Dylan's statement that he signed with his left hand for some years 'just to keep the whole experience from becoming stagnant.'  Thus, variations.

 

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Permalink Reply by Jason H on January 30, 2023 at 1:09pm

Dylan signing ambidextrous has been brought up around 10 years ago. Ill look for the link but I did post the link somewhere way back in December on here. Its not a total surprise to me and its one aspect I was suspecting.. I honestly am waiting for him to sign every style on video as proof ( that would be the easiest way) not likely to happen. I have ran into a dead end on my end. Was going to make another write up on the situation but at this point, it will still end with unanswered questions along with my overall opinion currently on authenticity and no one needs that. We need examples as 100% proof. Maybe one day

Great job Eugene, im glad this is still progressing with new info

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