Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
****This topic (and the forum) are gaining media attention. Please see this article for more information:
https://radaronline.com/p/liza-minelli-autopen-signature-memoir-sca...
****ATTENTION: Steve Cyrkin, who manages this website, has asked for photos of your Liza signature.
You will need to take high-resolution images (3,000-4,000 pixels wide) of Liza's first name, last name, and smiley face SEPARATELY, as close up as can be, and saved as PNGs or the native file format (NOT JPEG).
Please take individual pictures that isolate each segment as best as possible.
Send to: editor@autographmagazine.com.
****Photos must be submitted per these guidelines****
Separately, feel free to also post your photos on the forum below for others to see.
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WELCOME TO THE DISCUSSION
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“Start Spreading the News”
- Collectors have identified repeatable signature patterns across multiple copies of Liza Minnelli’s signed memoir.
- Overlay analysis reveals identical geometry and spacing in specific segments, an outcome not consistent with natural handwriting.
- There’s a growing view on this forum that this reflects a repeatable mechanical process, potentially involving advanced autopen use built from older verified signatures.
Recent news coverage also raises questions about whether Liza would have been able to sign books in the consistently pristine manner seen here.
There has also been widespread speculation among Liza’s fans on social media that the audiobook may involve AI-assisted voice technology, with some questioning whether the audiobook voice is a true recording or an AI-generated version of her voice.
⚠️ Still frame from a video showing the overlay process between two signatures
Check out these videos showing the overlay testing process used to compare the signatures.
Note how “Liza” matches up
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
Notice where “Love” is lining up on these and how much of Liza lines up with a slight shift
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps
Notice how much of the entire signature overlaps.
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Here is a visual walk-through of identifying matching segments in overlay. This reflects how the issue was initially discovered.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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One thing that’s also interesting: If you take the dust jacket off the book, Liza’s autograph is imprinted on the front hard cover underneath (appears to be only on US editions):
That signature matches a verified example that appears to date from at least the early 1990s:
What’s concerning is that some of the signature patterns inside the “signed” books seem very close to that same 90s example, which makes it look possible that the earlier verified signature may have been used as a template for the autopen signatures in the book:
(Book cover signature overlaid with a signature from inside book)
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***FURTHER OBSERVATIONS***
- Multiple members of this forum have observed indications that a modern, high-volume autopen system may be involved. One example is the UUNA TEK iAuto Premium, which demonstrates the level of precision and consistency seen with the Liza signatures. According to Steve Cyrkin, the founder of Autograph Live, the results appear consistent with this type of technology. A higher-volume model such as the Ultimate could also be capable, as the underlying signing mechanism appears similar, according to Steve.
- Additionally, members on the forum have observed evidence suggesting the use of multiple marker types: some signatures appear consistent with a standard medium-point Sharpie-style marker, while others show characteristics of a chisel-point tip. Variations in stroke width within a single line (such as tapered sections in circular elements like the face) support this, as pointed out by Steve Cyrkin.
- Demonstration videos of the UUNA TEK iAuto show that not only the pen moves, but the paper itself shifts in short, controlled motions during signing. As has been noted by members of the forum, this could help explain the consistent geometry and repeatable structure observed across multiple signatures.
Please see this video to learn more on how this technology works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
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You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Johnny Halts
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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What in the world? Thanks Johnny. Remind me, is that a copy that you were expecting and has now arrived? If so, is it really signed on the cover??
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67
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I’ve submitted a number of these to VeriMarx and this is the only one that received some negative analysis…
- The execution lacks the natural pressure variations and rhythmic flow expected from a hand-signed autograph.
- • The stroke patterns and placement match known mechanical templates used for this specific book run.
- • Analysis concludes that the signature is a mechanical reproduction rather than a hand-signed original.
I subsequently submitted an additional one and it received very positive analysis like all of the others.
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It received a much higher than usual forgery analysis percentage (52%), but nothing negative is stated in the results. I’m not sure what to make of that.
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This was posted to Social Media the first day or so of release. I saw it at a glance last week and forgot to share. If you zoom in on the sticker, you will see that the ink does over lap from the cover to the sticker.
I thought maybe someone had overlayed the inside signature to the front image but no… it’s written on.
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Good to know Johnny, thanks for catching that one and posting it here. Appreciate your continued to help.
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Curious about that one, but we’ll see if Johnny has more info.
Very interesting overlay between that one and Guy’s:
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Heres the Instagram link. I've already tried to message him
https://www.instagram.com/p/DVtoEMqiNLz/?igsh=b3l0aTEya3FncjFw
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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The photo Johnny Halts posted above is large, and it shows the autograph on coated paper and not porous, uncoated stock, so we can see tiny details better. The iAuto autopen most of us thought it could be doesn't just move the pen, it moves the paper too, often with lots of tiny up/down and side-to-side movements.
Zoom in on the close-up of the photo below. Look at the thousands of tiny irregularities, many like spikes, on the edges, which could be from the tiny sharp movements of the paper. They're not paper bleed, even though the paper isn't smooth. And I don't see any smearing of the spiky irregularities, like you often would with naturally moving writing with a marker.
The pics aren't large enough to be definitive, but I don't see forward motion pen movements I'd expect with naturally signed marker. I see some edge-to-edge ribbing in the ink in many places, too.
The ribbing is especially evident where the marker goes over white areas of Liza's photo Look at the ink of the lower L between the "Kids" and "Wait".
Ballroom has pointed out pen skipping on Ls and face circles from time to time. It could be that the pen signs certain angles and shapes with the flow, and others side-to-side.
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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"I don't see forward motion pen movements I'd expect with naturally signed marker.
I see some edge-to-edge ribbing in the ink",
Yep, a BIG +1 from me Steve Cyrkin, Admin
jj
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