Authenticity is Everything
Billie Holiday Autograph
I purchased this 78 vinyl record purportedly signed by Billie Holiday from an RACC trusted seller. I recently submitted the item to JSA for authentication, and unfortunately it did not pass.
I originally submitted it in person at a show here in CA a few weeks ago, and I was disappointed by how carelessly the item was handled during intake. When I received it back, there were fingerprints all over it. I contacted JSA immediately to report the condition, and they did expedite the review process.
Yesterday I received their letter confirming that the autograph did not pass authentication. I’m extremely disappointed and unsure what my next step should be, or if anyone here might be able to offer advice.
Prior to purchasing the item, I did my research and examined the signature characteristics—such as the looping of “Billie” and the shape of the “H” in “Holiday.” However, upon further inspection, the signature appears to have been written in ballpoint pen. Additionally, the Blue Ace label is known to be a bootleg label, and this particular pressing seems to have been released slightly before the time of her passing.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo
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Here is a link to the Mercury letter thread. The thread was started by our own Innuendo.
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If you are in a reading mood this might be of interest.
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva
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It may or may not be of interest to note that none of the Billie's sold at RR Auction over the last five years or so have had a pre-cert from Roger (REAL). The last one that he certified or pre-certified was sold in June 2021.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin
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Pug,
I've noticed that RR consistently uses the same TPA to precertify autographs of the same person, with rare exception. Among other things, that shows they aren't showing autographs from TPA to TPA until they find one who will call it real.
It sounds like in 2021, RR started using PSA/DNA for Billie instead of Roger. Why? I don't know. It could have been Roger's decision or RR's.
Whatever the reason, they'll use that TPA for Billie's autograph until they need to change.
Roger has been RR's main music authenticator for more than a decade. He precertified 11 of the 13 Beatles autographs they sold in March alone: $90,926 of the $92,519 sold
The only 2 they didn't use him for were a $614 Ringo with a PSA COA, and a $979 George precertified by PSA—probably because they previously sold it years ago with it.
If RR didn't have high confidence in Roger, why would they use him almost exclusively for music?
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94% What would VeriMarx say?
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Pug, JSA authenticates hundreds of thousands, if not over 1,000,000 autographs a year. I don't know if Roger still consults for them, but even if he does, there's a good chance they didn't show it to him.
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Permalink Reply by michelle
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was there a reason she didnt sign much? cant see that many examples sold by rr auctions over the years. she has a very unusual signature
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Michelle,
Billie didn't just sing the blues. Her life was blue. She had major drug and alcohol addiction.
She was severely depressed, and her life was traumatic from childhood to her last breath. And she was so upset and ashamed about what she did with her life.
Billie engaged with her audience, but she rarely had casual, enjoyable engagement with fans. Those were the days before eBay, so autographs weren't a huge part of her fan life. When she wasn't on stage, she was on drugs, booze, being manipulated by men, and in pain.
And she died young, from cirrhosis of the liver. She was only 44. She didn't have time to sign much.
Billie Holiday was my introduction to autograph collecting, which led to me buying Autograph Collector 5 years later. Collectors Universe was holding an auction in Las Vegas in 1999 called The One of a Kind Auction. It was our first auction, so I flew out to be there—Vegas is only an hour flight.
There were only 25 lots as I recall, but some were wild, like the entire L.A. Lakers basketball court from their old home at The Forum—"The Fabulous Forum!" where they played from 1967 till they moved to the new Staples Center in 1999.
There was a reel-to-reel audio tape from the end of an Elvis concert that contained the very first time an announcer ever said...."ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!"
I was a coin dealer and grader, but I collected books and art, and there was none of that—thankfully.
As I'm walking through the kiosks, I come across a piece of lined paper mounted in a hinged display. I start reading it and look up to see who it was: Billie Holiday.
My knowledge of Billie began and ended with Diane Ross playing her in "Lady Sings the Blues."
That changed.
It was a letter Billie wrote from prison in 1947 to Joe Guy—her husband, drug dealer, and sometime horn player. A heartbreaking two-page letter written front and back in pencil on lined prison stationery. She wrote about her life, how she messed it up so bad, how much she missed him, how disappointed and humiliated she was with herself. And how much she loved him, and couldn't wait to see him again.
I could tell her pain was palpable. It was for me, too.
About halfway through, she writes...
"Thank God Momma is dead, because if she knew where I was, it would kill her."
Five minutes later, after I stopped crying, I decided to buy the letter. I had never bought an autograph before.
The auction starts about an hour later. The lot comes up, and I bid. There's just one other bidder, someone I knew, who could buy diamonds as Christmas ornaments. I'm determined to buy it, though, and keep bidding. Until the friend I was with did an intervention.
"How do you know what it's worth? How do you know it's real? You don't know anything about autographs."
I still kick myself for following his well-meaning advice.
I've never seen it again. And I've looked and looked for it over the years.
I never bought another Billie Holiday. It wouldn't be good enough.
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That's a beautiful and informative post Steve!
This has certainly been an interesting discussion, rather unstructured at times but touching on some very interesting aspects of autograph collecting and authentication.
Somehow I don't think we'll ever reach a consensus on whether the OP example is authentic or not or on how good a job the third party authenticators have done. I'm still puzzled by many aspects of this case but nothing new there.
One additional thing would interest me though. Do you know of any good articles, books or videos that describe how the top authenticators do their job, preferably authored by the authenticators themselves? I'm amazed that an authenticator can authenticate any "borderline authentic" autograph properly for $150, particularly if they also have to take receipt of, and return ship, an awkwardly shaped and fragile item like the 78 that has spawned this long discussion..
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Permalink Reply by Ryan Wolfson
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The autograph is authentic.
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You'll never convince me of that and you yourself didn't seem convinced along the way - trying to return the item and trying to question the good name of the seller on Facebook etc. - but that's OK. It's all about opinions and not all opinions have to be the same.
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It’s not like you’re working as an authenticator. Your opinion is noted, but it’s not determinative. I’ve always believed the piece is genuine. The JSA experience at the show was a hassle and ultimately turned into a fiasco, and they never even had the physical 78 in hand to properly review. This is also the same company that has declined to authenticate items that were literally witnessed in person.
At this point, it feels like you and Eric have just picked the signature apart because it doesn’t match your narrow expectation of how it “should” look. There are well-documented variations in her signature, which you’re choosing to overlook. I only contacted the seller because he guaranteed it would pass any TPA—and it didn’t. That’s frustrating, but it doesn’t mean the autograph isn’t real. I never tried returning it. Where did that come from?
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