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STUDY: Jerry Lee Lewis - TTM real or not real

Steve asked me to start a new thread since some were having a lot of issues with regards to whether or not the through the mail autographs of Jerry Lee Lewis are real or not. I will post some examples of what we have been getting recently and some know in person examples. These TTM signatures are not cheap. You have to pay $50 for them to his box office box. The question is are they real or not. Roger has said that he has never seen Mr. Lewis sign this way and it looks to perfect - like a woman's signature.

Please post your thoughts here and examples.

thanks

Mark

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on June 7, 2014 at 3:16pm

The accusation of TTM secretarial signatures as it stands would seem to require all of the following to be true. (Just to be clear, I don’t believe any of these things):

JLL’s wife is lying when she claims that he signs all autographs and enjoys doing so.

Someone associated with JLL was taking money to deface personal property.

The eBay seller that offered the JLL signed photo is lying (He insists that the photo was signed in front of him. This claim was made after having sold the photo and receiving positive feedback. It was pretty much a done deal. I don’t know what he had to gain by lying about it, or even responding to my email).

A proxy signer endorses JLL’s checks in a way that shows natural variance across signatures.

A proxy signer wrote “Sincerely” on Dave’s LP, in which the autograph clearly was signed by JLL.

A proxy signer has incorporated unusual characteristics (the differing “RY” and “E”s) that are consistent with authentic JLL autographs, and which appear in the same random manner.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on June 10, 2014 at 12:06pm

I want to get opinions on the above composite (but together by my loving wife who thinks I am nuts to spend so much time studying the signature of JLL). The signatures were cropped, rotated to run left to right instead of uphill as JLL signs and turned black and white for consistency. All of the signatures listed are or at least have been certified or okayed by someone generally respected by this site or a major, well respected auction house. The one exception is the signature with the squiggle under it. It is a ttm example I received. After comparing it to the other six shown, I believe it is authentically hand signed by Jerry Lee Lewis. Did Judith or someone else add the squiggle or did Jerry? I am unsure of that but the signature looks good to me as it has the same or very similar slant, letter formation and general feel of the others. Please share your thoughts.

I may post this on a new post as well. This one is getting pretty full.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on June 14, 2014 at 8:31pm

I am disappointed to not receive any comments on the composite I posted. It clearly shows that JLL signed the signature some on this site have questioned or outright called a forgery.
After my own personal study and that of BallroomDays67 and others, I have concluded that The Killer Jerry Lee Lewis has signed all of the ttm examples I have viewed (excluding the stamped signatures). At the start of this discussion I would not have believed it but evidence has shown me otherwise. I admit some of my earlier theories and thoughts were misguided and I believe several others were as well.
I'd love to hear final thoughts from Mr. Zipper, Steve, Roger and the Marks as well as others.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on June 16, 2014 at 6:52am

Hi Chad

As I stated previously, Jerry Lee Lewis is not my area of specialty and not a signature I have examined outside the confines of this thread. But, it appears strong arguments have been made on both sides. In my opinion, some of the questioned signatures may have been incorrectly categorized as secretarial. But, are there some secretarials in the mix or perhaps authentic signatures with secretarial dedications added? In my opinion, that is an open question. Regards and happy collecting, Steve Zarelli (Mr. Zipper)

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on June 16, 2014 at 9:11am

I think that they one that I got TTM the first time on the album was a secretarial. It had the line underneath it along with the "Sincerely". I think that the ones with the line underneath and most of the ones we got before Judith was contact were all NOT signed by Jerry Lee Lewis. They (Judith and Mr. Lewis) have since rectified the situation and he is now signing. The ones I got back recently are clearly written by someone else other than the person who signed my first album. The new ones are written sloppy - they look like the signature of an older man with the inscriptions by him.

One more observation - Judith apologized to me when I contacted her. Why would she apologize?? If the first one I got was real, there would nothing to apologize for. Then the NEXT one I got back looked NOTHING like the first. There you go. And for the record - I am VERY happy with the way she took care of my situation and I am sending another item in with $100. :)

This is my opinion and I am NO EXPERT. Can authenticators get things wrong sometimes. Sure… But I think Roger is right on the "Mark" on this one.

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on June 17, 2014 at 6:40am

Regarding the apologizing, I took it differently than you did. When I mentioned to her my concerns she did not say or infer "I'm sorry you got a bad signature" or "I don't know who signed your item" or anything like that. She was saying (I'll paraphrase) "I'm sorry this has been giving you stress, we want you to be comfortable and happy, I do assure you Jerry signs them all but if you want a refund or something else we will do that for you."

Regarding Roger, I can't agree with his assessment that many of these are secretarial. I will agree with him when he left open the possibility on June 4th that if JLL varies his sig that much and getting well paid for it then so be it. Like Roger, I too would like to see trusted in person samples showing the cleaner looking versions. I believe we have a couple but not everyone trusts the source.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 16, 2014 at 10:50am

From what I've seen there are definitely secretarials. I think that a comparison of the two dual-signed checks we have shows how good Judith is at signing JLL's signature:

Notice how similar JLL's Ls look to Judith's on each check. Most telling is that all 3 Ls on the left check are upright, and the 3 Ls on the right are all leaning right to some degree. And look how similar JLL's and Judith's L in Lewis look to each other's. Their downstrokes have remarkably similar sways, and the shape of the upstrokes of the loop are similar, too. They're similar on the right check as well.

Now look at the D, T and H of Judith in both checks. In the left check, they tilt to the left; on the right check they tilt to the right, very similarly to the Ls in both signatures.

Thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on June 16, 2014 at 11:49am

In looking at the second check endorsement, I’m noticing the formation of the first “R”, the connection of the “RY”, the slant of the “L” in “Lewis” and the fact that the signature trails off after the “W”. These are all strong indications of an authentic JLL signature. While the “L”s appear somewhat similar, the bottoms of the JLL “L”s are much more pointed. This is consistent with his authentic signature. While JLL also forms “L”s that are more rounded at the bottom, the dissimilarity would point to these being from two different signers.

The first check endorsement also shows the abbreviated “Lewis” as well as a combination of rounded and pointed “E”s, which is another indication of an authentic JLL signature.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on June 17, 2014 at 7:41am

I have a few thoughts on your post. You mention how the "L's" look similar. I decided to draw an "L" myself and mine looks similar as well. I think the defining characteristic is the sharper formation on the lower loop. I don't see the slants as much of an issue.

As I mentioned before, I am focused more on the fan autographed items then the signed checks. That being said, I have seen other examples I believe are authentic that match up with these.